Metis in Space: Season 3, Episode 1: Dune

Transcribed by Elena Ortiz, Will Pramono, Kenyon Smutherman

[Intro]

Both: [Laughter.]

Chelsea: Yes, we finally did it! 

Molly: We did the thing. Wait, it’s a secret!
C: It’s a secret. You don’t know yet.

M: We told a very hard and devious riddle. 

C: Right.

M: Nobody got it. 

C: Nobody got it on Twitter.

M: Actually a bunch of people got it. Like, most people got it. You probably got it. 

C: Yeah. 

M: It happened. Yeah. Season 3. Who thought?
C: When we started it.

M: Still don’t think. 

C: No, it’s not even happening.

M: We’re going to wake up and it’s all going to have been a dream.

C: Right, a great, fun, wonderful dream that I really enjoyed having.

M: We’re going to try to call each other but since we’re calling at the same time it’s going to show busy and then we’re 

C: And then we’re both going to be like, “Should I wait? No, they’re going to think they should wait, so then I call you, but you’re going to be like, no, she’s going to think that I’m going to wait, so you’ll call me!” and then it’ll happen again, and we’ll be like “Okay, this time, we’ll wait.” and then we’ll both wait and then we’re like, “Dammit!” and then we’ll call each other again at the same time, and it’ll go on like that for, like, 2 hours, before we finally get ahold of each other.

M: Yeah, and then I’ll be, like, “Chelsea, I had this amazing dream!”
C: And I’ll be like, “No, wait, first, I want to let you finish, but I want to tell you about my amazing dream!”

M: And then, it will all have been a dream.

C: Yeah. So, enjoy the dream.

M: Live the dream.

C: Dream the dream. 

M: Yeah, dream the dream, live the dream, be the dream!
C: Be the dream.

M: Be the dream you want to see in the world?
C: In the dream?
M: Be the dream you want to be in the seem dream?
C: [Laughter.]

M: Okay, great so, I think we should just jump right in because we watched something pretty long today. 

C: Yeah.

M: So, first, I think we wanted to introduce the drink of the evening. 

C: The drink of the evening, yes. The drink of the evening.

M: We’re both reaching for our drinks.

C: Yes. It’s cool, it’s satisfying.

M: It’s clear, it’s extremely refreshing. It’s maybe one of the healthiest drinks out there for you.

C: The most vital, it is life.

M: Yeah, that’s right. This is dihydrogen monoxide.

C: That’s right.

M: The wonderful, the one, the only.

C: The waaahhhtahhh. We’re drinking water! And you’ll understand why if you don’t already.

M: Mmm. To be fair we did cut our water a bit with rum and juice earlier, but, uh.

C: But this water is pure. This water is life.

M: It’s pure, beautiful.

C: It’s actually really good.

M: It’s refreshing. We need to do more water.

C: Yeah. 

M: More often.

C: Yeah. It’s the drink of the evening. And you can definitely join us in that! Why is water the drink of the evening?
M: Well, Chelsea, that’s a great question. So, water is the drink of the evening because we have finally decided to go there. 

C: Mhm.

M: The science fiction to end all science fiction.

C: Basically. Yeah. We’ve been kind of too chicken to do this, because it’s pretty epic.

M: Yeah. I still don't’ know if I necessarily even feel ready.

C: We’re never going to be ready. That’s the thing.

M: No.

C: It’s like having kids, you’re never actually ready. 

M: Yeah, you just gotta do it.
C: So we just did it, you know. What’s the worst that can happen? 

M: I mean, nothing worse than that actual movie.

C: Yeah. 

B: [Laughter.]

M: So, yeah, we decided to just jump right in, both feet in, canon-ball style.

C: First season three, watched: Dune.

M: Dune.

C: Dune, that’s right, Dune was watched by us.

M: All whatever number of units of time it took to watch it, we did that.

C: It seemed like it went on forwever.

M: And yet, here we are. I loved it.

C: On the other side, it’s like labour. You know, it was kind of painful to go through, but in the end it was really cathartic. I’m sorry everything is related to kids and labour today.

M: For me it’s kind of like when you have a toothache, or like, you’re a kid and your tooth falls out, and then you kind of tongue it. Or you have a canker sore and it hurts but you can’t stop.

C: You can’t help it.

M: It’s like that pain, you know. But then all of a sudden it’s like, Todo busts in with like a neeeeeah, neeeeah [airplane sounds]. 

C: And it’s all better. It’s all better. So of course we watched the David Lynch Dune.

M: Yeah, we had to.

C: We didn’t have time for anything else. And also it’s the David Lynch Dune, like, what, are we not going to watch that one? Was that even an option? 

M: Just because it’s terrible and he renounced it himself. No, never.

C: It’s terrible in its beauty.
M: Yeah, so we’re just going to, like, sort of

C: Harkonnen pustules.

M: So can we just, yeah, so let’s, we’ll get into the Harkonnens. They’re real something, like, evil gingers. 

C: [Laughter.]

M: So, anyway, Dune.
C: Yeah, but, wait, why would we watch Dune? There’s no Indigenous people in it. 

M: Oh, wait, but

C: But maybe there are. 

M: Are there?
C: Indigenous peoples of the planet Arrakis, you know? Do you think that was ever taken into account?
M: Okay, so here’s the other thing. Freemen aren’t actually indigenous to Dune. 

C: I know!
M: Ahhh! No!

C: So, yeah, that’s the thing about this. So, if you haven’t seen this movie or read all of the books, first of all, why are you even listening to us?
M: Okay, wait, you haven’t read all the books?
C: I have read 

M: There are like 16 books.

C: Oh no, I haven’t read the ones that were written by his son. Like, you don’t go beyond what 

M: I’m going beyond.

C: Oh, no, no. 

M: Oh yeah, I’m on House Harkonnen right now.

C: Oh, no, we are fully in disagreement on that.

M: Oh, no, I’m not encouraging people to read those ones, they’re terrible.

C: Okay, good. Yeah, Frank Herbert, I ended with what he wrote.

M: I mean, even those are terrible, though.
C: Well, okay, but I’m not going to read those other stuff, it just goes on forever.

M: Yeah, it does really go on and on forever.

C: But the thing is, okay, so this movie, um, is very, very confusing. And if you haven’t even read the first book it’s 

M: It’s going to be impossible.

C: You have no idea what’s going on. At all. I remember watching this movie as a kid and I just thought it was, like, I don’t know what was going on. It was, like, a nightmare. Right?
M: Talk about dreaming. The thing is, like, a psychedelic nightmare.

C: It makes no sense. It makes no sense. It’s just like, I remember the images that stuck out when I was a kid was how gross Harkonnen was, uh, yeah, and a few weird things. But none of it made any sense to me. So I was just like huh? And so I was really turned off of Dune. And then I read the book. 

M: And then you were like WOOOOW.

C: Yeah! 

M: Okay, so wait, wait. Okay, if you haven’t read the book. Don’t watch this movie. Just turn off the podcast, and then read the book, and then come back in however long it takes you, and then watch. So we’re going to wait. 

C: Yeah.

[Pause.]

C: Are you done? How about now?
M: Do you want to, just, maybe read, you know, just go over the parts that didn’t make sense and read them again. 

C: Yeah, we’ll wait again.

[Pause.]

C: If we keep giving them time to do that, then, they’re going to do their PhDs on Dune.

M: Okay, forget it. Don’t bother.

C: You got the basic idea.

M: Don’t go into grad school yet.

C: When you read it again you’re going to see stuff you missed. And again and again. Anyway, the movie itself does not make any sense. But we’re critiquing the movie, but we’re also going to bring parts of the books into it, because we have to.

M: And also because the movie is terrible and the books are amazing.

C: Yeah.

M: Honestly the only thing that saves the movie for me is Kyle McLaughlin. I am in love with Kyle McLaughlin and his floppy hair.

C: And my daughter pointed out that he looks like Justin Trudeau.

M: Okay, we need to stop these comparisons to Justin Trudeau. I feel like I have this weird relationship with Justin Trudeau. I’ve never met the guy and 

C: Have we made comparisons? Or is this just something that happens in your own life?
M: This is something that happens in my own life, and I don’t want to go into it and, like, it’s vaguely, by vaguely I mean really embarrassing. It’s okay, we can just leave it there. It’s mysterious, like the movie Dune. But let’s just keep Justin Trudeau out of this one. 

C: Alright. I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Great. Okay. Moving on.

M: Okay, sweet, mystery is the same. 

C: Yeah.

M: Okay, Dune. It’s a movie, it exists. 1984, David Lynch. Starring all of our favourite people, basically. 

C: Yes.

M: That German guy. 

C: Yeah, yeah.

M: That ginger guy, that other ginger guy. Sting. 

C: The guy from, what is it called again, Arthur

M: Quantum Leap!
C: Quantum Leap, yeah, 

M: Dean Stockwell, Stockwell Day!
C: Yeah, Stockwell Day, right [Laughter.] So you see, right, yeah, you got reoccurring people who are just in all of the scifi things.

M: Yeah, that’s, that’s really my favourite thing about scifi TV and movies.

C: Yeah, they just recycle the people.

M: Everybody.

C: Yeah, the guy that was in this, this, and that, and the other thing. 

M: Mhm. 

C: There we go.

M: Yeah, you can kind of trace Kyle McLaughlin through the ages based on science fiction.

C: [Laughter.] So yes, we have the princess Irulan narrating, like, as you were pointing out during the movie, most of this is exposition to try to make some sense of it. Failing miserably. 

M: It’s impossible So, okay, also this is, like, really kind of embodied well in the synopsis. So the synopsis of Dune is, “A duke’s son leads desert warriors against the galactic emperor and his father’s evil nemesis when they assassinate his father, and free their desert world from their emperor’s rule.” And anyone who reads Dune knows that’s not actually really what Dune is about.
C: Yeah, but that’s what the movie is about.

M: It’s kind of what the movie’s about. 

C: Yeah, kind of.
M: Kind of.

C: They really had to take the most surface reading of the. Like, I can’t even imagine trying to actually make that, like, a true movie, true to the book.

M: Well, have you seen Jodorosky’s Dune? 

C: No, I’ve... no.

M: So, Jodorowsky’s Dune is literally an entire documentary, like, a feature-length documentary about another guy who tried to make the movie Dune but didn’t finish it. Like, Dune is the kind of thing that if you try to make a movie of it, it will 

C: It consumes your life. 

M: He tried to raise his son to be Paul, and, like, trained him in martial arts for, like, 12 years and stuff.

C: I have got to get my husband to watch this, because he’s a Dune fanatic. But you had suggested it so I put it on, and he said “this isn’t actually a Dune movie?” [Laughter.] “Turn it off!” and I was like “Oh, okay.” But, yeah. “I don’t want to see a movie about trying to make a movie! Get back to me when you’ve made the movie!”
M: So, part of the thing with the movie is that it traces how this movie that never got made basically structures science fiction as we know it in film. Like, even though it never actually got made, like, all of the aesthetics in the Dune movie that did get made were kind of, like, taken from this movie that didn’t get made.

C: Oh my gosh.

M: In a whole bunch of different ways, but anyway, 

C: Alright. So it’s very steam punky, this version. 

M: Yeah, we were confused because it predates steampunk by a lot.

C: Yeah, it’s, and yet its super steampunk. So, part of the Dune universe is, like, they don’t really need, well, they’re not allowed to have computers, you know. Um, the technology is kind of, you know, it’s weird because you have this thing called the spice, THE SPICE! 

M: The spice!
C: And it allows you to fold space and you can travel without movement.

M: It kind of lets you do everything. You can see the future, 

C: Yeah, it expands your consciousness.

M: It makes you live longer

C: Extends life, yeah, exactly. So it does, sort of, you know I’ve heard some people argue, I would never enter this argument because Dune, people who like Dune are fanatics. So I’m not having this argument, I’m just bringing up things that I may have heard 4th or 5th hand, some people argue that the Dune universe isn’t actually sci fi because the spice is just so magical.

M: That is so bogus.

C: Yeah.

M: Sorry, I don’t want to get in

C: Yeah, you know, 

M: I’m weighing in on that.

C: Some people bring that up, you know, anyway. Because yeah, there’s not a lot of hard science in this. But you know science fiction doesn’t have to all be hard science.

M: It’s true, like science fiction to me it’s about asking really big questions, like what if you had this really weird secret eugenics program that lasted for 10s of 1000s of years, 

C: 90 generations

M: and created the universe’s super being.

C: That’s right. 

M: You know, the big questions.

C: There you go, okay! 

M: So anyway, we open up with a giant floating princess Irulan head.

C: And she just talks and talks and talks and talks.

M: Yeah, and you’re like, okay, blah blah, you’re explaining how the universe works, etc. etc. And then she, this is my favourite part, maybe of the whole movie. She fades out and then she fades back in, saying, “Oh yes, I forgot to tell you,” and then does way more exposition!

C: Yeah, yeah!

M: Like, the first 10 minutes of the movie are just Irulan explaining

C: Trying to make sense of this, trying to make it make sense for you and feeling utterly,

M: With hilarious cartoony graphics. 

C: Yeah. And so we have these three main planets, right, that are sort of, like, at the centre of this particular story, so we have Caladan where you have house Atreides, and you have Giedi Prime, you know where you have house Harkonnen, and then the emperor of the universe, with his golden everything, because if you’re going to be emperor of the universe, you might as well have golden everything, is on a planet Kaitain. Um, and you have the guild. And these are the people that, the navigators and everything, these are the ones who control the spice, the movement of the spice. The navigators use it to fold time and move everything around. Without which, the universe, you know the bureaucracy of the universe would come to a grinding halt. It would just, like, it would, there would be no empire. 

M: Yeah, basically because they have no technology they rely on the spice for transport entirely.

C: Yeah, so they couldn’t do anything

M: Spice is their basic entire transportation infrastructure, so, like there is no empire of the universe if they can’t get from planet to planet.

C: It’s like petroleum right now. 

M: Oh, yeah! Wait a minute, was that a subtle metaphor I see?

C: No, it was totally not subtle. 

B: [Laughter.]

C: So just remember that, okay. 

M: So the whole thing with the Emperor in particular is that the spice must flow. The spice must flow

C: At whatever cost. And because of that, because it’s so important, all of these, sort of, this culture has arisen around it. And depending on who controls it, it’s all about power. What does Paul say later? He who can destroy it controls it. He who can destroy a thing controls a thing. So whoever controls spice, has more access to it is of course more powerful. So you have all these machinations going on between these different houses. It’s very European in that sense.

M: Yeah, and it’s also very much within that weird monarchy. You have dukes, you have barons, you have the Emperor, you have people wanting to ascend to the throne, they all inherit titles, all this. You know, when you actually look at the world it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense

C: Right.

M: But it’s fine because then you have the Fremen, who are totally different. But are they really different?
C: No, that’s the thing.

M: Anyway, but yes. So, okay, it opens up on the planet Kaitain, where the machinations are going on, everything is gold, the floors are teal, there’s, like, 5 billion bulldogs. There are a ton of bulldogs for some reason, I don’t know, it’s something you don’t notice until you’ve watched it like a lot of times.

C: Yeah, what’s with the damn bulldogs? But they’re there. What I really like about this is that you have the Bene Gesserit, who are these women who have, you know, we were alluding to before have this 90 generation long eugenics program going on to try to birth the ultimate being, but, you know, along the way they’ve managed to learn these mind tricks and things like this, but they’re basically, like, 

M: Badasses.

C: Yes, badass magical women

M: They can read minds and tell you what to do with their voices, and kill you with their pinkie and stuff

C: Yeah, so they’re there, you’ve got, was that the reverend mother that was with him?
M: Yeah, she’s like the number one 

C: Yeah, so she’s, yeah, exactly, the ultimate reverend mother, and so she’s there with the Emperor and then this huge, sort of, like, tank, comes in, it’s like a black train car.

M: Oh my god, I wrote train car too! Wow!

C: Right, it totally looks like a train car. 

M: Yeah. But like steampunk.

C: Yeah, steampunky. And it’s accompanied by all these guys, and in this movie, so the aesthetic here is that they are all bald, and you know they’r esepaking like blluurghghhh, but it translates through this steampunk microphone thing, and that was fun.

M: Yeah, and so, they’re talking to the Emperor and he’s being kind of belligerent to the Emperor, who is being kind of, like, whatever, and then they open up this tank and it opens up to this big nasty fetus whale.

C: Fetus whale, I like that. It kind of looks like a brain too.

M: Yeah, a brain, but it’s, like

C: With little arms, vestigial arms.

M: But it’s a human and this is like the guild navigators

C: And with a very David Lynch mouth, anal mouth, like

M: Oh my god yeah

C: David Lynch with his, you know

M: Yeah, Freud would have something to say about that. 

C: Yeah

M: For sure. So this is a guild navigator.

C: Yeah, so this is basically, like, a human who has been, like

M: Immersed in Spice Gas.

C: Horribly mutated for, yeah, that’s sort of, like the future of humanity basically.

M: And so this nasty fetus whale guild navigator.

C: Enjoy your vestigial arms.

M: Flapping them around. I really wanted him to wave at the Emperor, like “hey!”

C: But he’s down to business.

M: Oh yeah. You are transparent. I see plans within plans. I see two great houses, House Atreides has Harkonnen, you must share with us. LIke, he’s giving orders to the Emperor.

C: But that whole thing, plans within plans, like boom. That’s Dune. Yeah. Plans within plans, like you read Dune the first time and you’re like, Okay. And then you read it a second time and you’re like WOW, I didn’t notice that going on. And then you read it a third time and you’re like, what am I missing now? Because obviously I’m missing something. Plans within plans, man.

M: How many times have you read Dune? 

C: Uh only like three or four. And kind of like. Hey Baby. Oh it’s okay. I'll read it more. I promise. I swear to God. I will read it more times than that. Baby's like, I need you to be an expert on Dune by the time I’m starting to read. I need you to explain to me all the plans within plans, 

M: Yeah you should probably just start reading it too. I see. Two great houses. Yes. And so the, you know, this navigator is saying, you know, we know that the Atreides are building a secret army, um, using this sound technique. And so they introduced this like weird thing in the movie that's not in the book and it's, yeah, it's, it's just stupid with this like Weirding things that they talk through that’s a weapon.

C: And they explode stuff with it and it's like, it doesn't happen in the books at all. 

M: Yeah. 

C: Like, I don't know why they decided to bring it in. Like, I guess it's kind of like an easy, convenient and efficient way to.

M: More visual?

C: Yeah, explain what's going on. I guess. I don't know. It's cheesy. 

M: I think maybe. Yeah, I think it's, I think it just works visually better than like, try to explain the weirding way. Yeah. 

C: I guess part of it too, like, I don't know. It seemed like it was kind of basically like the emperor is ultimately in the service of the Spacing Guild, which is kind of like, you know, if they're going to be corporations in the universe of Dune like the Spacing Guild is the ultimate corporation. They’ve got the monopoly on transport. 

M: Yeah. He's got the political power, but he's at the mercy of the people who control the resources that allow his empire to exist.

C: Right. Like oil corporations. 

M: Wait, was that a subtle metaphor? 

C: Yeah. Uh, okay. What else? 

M: The Guild navigator sees a slight problem because these Guild navigators, because they're immersed in the spice so much, they kind of have some of these powers where they can see the future, et cetera, et cetera. And so they see that there's actually a slight problem. And the problem is Paul Atreides. Now Paul Atreides is the son of the Duke of Caladan, Leto, and he spacing navigator basically orders the emperor to have Paul killed. 

C: And they need him killed. So yeah, they know they have to, they have to get them on Caladan. So the Bene Gesserit who was, who was kicked out, right. She’s spying on them with her mind powers and she's like, Ooh, Paul is important. We got to go check him out on Caladan. Right. So she sends her sisters and, yeah, they go to go check out Paul, what's up with Paul. So the thing is that Paul shouldn't exist. Yeah. Cause the way that this breeding program works is that it's these Bene Gesserit women only have female children. Right. And they only breed with the lines that they're told to. It's a breeding program. Like it's really hardcore. Right. And so  the Lady Jessica, who is the concubine of Duke Leto of House Atreides, she went against that. She didn't have her little girl, she had a boy because the Duke really wanted a boy. Yeah. And that was just like, you just don't do that man. 90 generations of breeding and you just like go in like mess it up. 

M: Yeah. Like what's up. Yeah. What's up with that. What's up with that willful women?

C: Yeah. She's too willful and bad-ass even for the Bene Gesserit. So, yeah, it switches to Caladan, and all it is is like it's always running on Caledonia.

M: Caladan is super, it's a watery  plant. 

C: It's basically Atlantis. 

M: Yeah.

(Laughter) 

C: And so like, that's all you ever see. And so you learn Jessica was supposed to give birth to only daughters, and then it cuts to this son that she was never supposed to have. Who's Kyle MacLachan, Paul Atreides, right. 

M: It has nothing to do with Justin Trudeau. Yeah. And he's on his shitty futuristic Wikipedia. 

C: Yeah, I was, I was saying he's using a shitty futuristic iPad. It's just like, he's just like searching around. He's like spice mining. And then he like presses his like knob and the knob like swings over Spice Mining. The act by which splice is extracted. Worms always come to spice mining. Arrakis: desert planet, home of spice. Baron Harkonnen has sworn to destroy House Atreides and steal the ducal signet ring for himself. This is the crappiest iPad I've ever seen, but it's eighties, man, whatever. 

M: Yeah. I guess it's like a steampunk.

C: There you go. Yeah.  he was like studying away, you know, like it looks like one of those leapfrog things, 

M: It does. Kind of cute.

C:He was like doing the leapfrog program and then Dr. Yue, Gurney Halleck, Thufir Hawat. They all come into the room. 

M: Right? Yeah. So, okay. So you have these Mentats, right? And these are, these are human computers, right? Cause we're again, not, not a lot of technology. So a lot of this is done through human minds, expanded consciousness through various drugs. Or the spice. So you have the Mentats who like, who are able to sort of like speed up their computational abilities. They're really intelligent. They can calculate all sorts of things. Um, and, and Patrick Stewart, 

M: Gurney. Yeah. He's like, he's kind of like a warrior poet. He cares. There's like this huge like sitar looking thing. Yes. 

C: Yeah. He's exactly a warrior poet. There's nothing. Yeah.

M: And like, if you're going to have a warrior poet, it's obviously it's got to be him. It's funny because he can be both venerable and sexy. Kick-ass. You know, at the same time. Yeah. It's kind of weird, but he managed to do that.

C: Like this movie was made in 1984. And like, when you look at him now, he's still that cause he looks the same.

M: Like, well, how long ago was that? Like 30, 35 years. 

C: I don't know. You were probably born in the eighties.

M: So I was, I was born before this movie was made, so I don't know anything before that is like the myths of the far past. But anyway, Patrick Stewart is still so 

C: Yes. 

C: Smoking and bold, but  sexy, you know, and like ageless sexy. I know. And sexy. We both decided that we need to lose her double chin so we can be more like Patrick, 

M: Patrick Stewart doesn't have a double chin, so neither can we, yeah, I have to get it.

C: Also his enunciation is really good. Anyway. Um, so one of his great lines, uh, in this movie is. So they walk in, uh, in. Kyle MacCloughlin, Paul Atreides, and he has his back to the door and they give him shit for it. You know, like you’re Duke son, like we trained you better than this. Don't sit with your back to the door. And he's kind of like, Oh, well, whatever, like I don't really care. And then Patrick Stewart challenges him to a knife fight. Which seems to be kind of normal in his life, as young men being trained. He's got to learn his weapons. Yeah. So he's like, Oh, you know, Patrick Stewart, I'm not really in the mood. And Patrick Stewart says, “Moods a thing for cattle and love play, not fighting. Guard yourself!” 

M: And love play.

(Laughter)

C: I really hope he ad-libbed that. Yeah, that was great.

M: So he's, he's got the, the, the graphics are so funny. So they put on these, these shields, right?

These like these, I don't know. Whatever anyway. And they just look these box people, Minecraft people. 

C: Yeah. 

M: And then fighting, 

C: And then they're fighting. And like every time their shields touch there's like sparks. So it's like, and then, uh, so they fight and like, honestly, the funniest part is how they look. It becomes clear that Paul Atreides is a pretty good fighter. Uh, it's all fine.

M: Um, he's the wonder, boy, that's the thing. Paul Atredies is the wonder boy. 

C: Oh, totally. Like, I guess everybody's favorite. 

M: I both love and hate this book and movie. Yeah. Because of Paul.

C: Yeah. I both love and hate Paul. 

M: I mean, Paul just kind of in later books just becomes such a Tyrant. It's like so wild and all this shit about the Golden Path. Anyway, we won’t get into the Golden Path, 

C: But they're also talking about the Freneb who are the people who live on Arrakis.And they say, you know, they don't know much about them, but they have blue within blue eyes from the spice. Right. Arrakis is the only place that the spice can be is like, that's where it comes from. And then the inhabitants of this world who you think might be indigenous peoples, but are not, but sort of are because, you know, whatever does it really matter who came first? Yes, of course. It's a little bit soul train anyway. Uh, yeah. Okay. So we're back. We're still in Caladan and LadyJessica in my favorite scene of the entire movie, the one that stuck with me the most as a kid besides the pastorals, the good one 

M: Wait, did you, did you skip past the fighting robot?

C: Yeah, like whatever. 

M: Oh, okay. So Chelsea was like, I don't really care about any of this. All I care about is the Fremen. So she just like didn’t,. Didn't you fall asleep for a part of? I looked over and you kind of look like you were...

C: Like, I was moisturizing my eyeballs

M: With your eyelids?

C: Yeah. I had to close them for a little bit cause they were getting dried out. And so I just, I would just like close them with a baby on me. Cause the baby was strapped to me the entire time I was watching this and yeah. I just like slid my eyelids down. Yeah, in a downward motion. Yeah. Not sleep. Totally not. Meditation. Deep meditation.

M: Okay. I mean, that's fair. Okay. We can skip the, we can skip the fighting robot. I don't mind. Yeah. Let's just go to Lady Jessica. 

C: Awesome infrastructure and felt like, like everything in this...

M: I know, but we're already at like 27 minutes.

C: So like yeah. Let's keep going. Yeah. Okay. Whatever. There was a fighting robot. 

M: Okay. Fighting robot. Okay. Lady Jessica she's in the rain and she has the best look. It’s got  It's got fur and it's got infrastructure. Cause like the, the hood is probably half a foot above her head and, and probably another foot on either side.

C: Huge, like you could put like six babies in there. Oh man. 

M: Yeah. Oh my God. Yes. And it's just like, it just stands out and makes her look awesome. And like, nothing can touch her.

C: Yeah. It's like a cave.

M: I want that. Like. Nothing could ever get in there. No, it's all one, like, especially, you know, with glasses, like you put on a hood and, even if the hood covers you at, sometimes your glasses touch the edge of the hood and then you're just dripping onto your cheeks. And it's like, nooo; this is the cloak that you need so that doesn't happen. The Lady Jessica cloak. 

C: Clammy cheeks are a thing of the past in this future past whatever it might be. Yeah. 

M: Yeah. All right. 

C: So,  she was wearing a great hood and she goes out to like this kind of like back gate. That's obviously not the main front gate, which is probably very splendorous and she opens the door and it's Gaius Helen Mohiam. This ultimate Reverend Mother. She's like sweatin scary. She withers you.

M: Totally scary. 

C: Yeah. So they have come to, uh, you know, I don't know. They, they come in, they harangue 

her for having a boy and all this stuff and you know, they, anyway, we can't get, I want to get too into it, but we can't get into it.So whatever. Okay. Anyway, they've come to test the boy basically. You know, and, and just make sure that, you know, just kind of trying to see what it is like…

M: What his potential is. 

C: Exactly. And this is the Gom Jabbar moment. Yeah, so they're talking in Paul's room, which is kind of weird, uh, and he's like, there sleeping. And she's saying, you know, like she's kind of reading the future a little bit for Jessica saying like for the father, there's nothing like, did you really think you could bear the Kwisatz Haderach? The universe’s super being like, how dare you? Uh, and she's like, I’ll accept, you know, I'll accept all responsibility for this. And she's like, I don't think you're ready for this future that you've created; Jessica’s just like, Oh, well shit. And then Paul wakes up hearing that his father essentially has no future. But you know very. You know, whatever it is like.

M: Man, she's practical. 

C: She's like, I'm not telling you we're doing this Gom Jabar box thing.

M: Yeah. So, perfect.

C: Right. So she takes, she takes Paul and, and it's very clear that he could die from this. Right. Jessica's totally flipping out, but she has to let it happen. So, you know, she, she has him there, uh, and she has this box then she's like, you gotta put your, put your hand in there, right? Oh. And by the way, she has like, so these Bene Gesserit, they have a, they have a voice, right. That they can use to like, just override any consent. Which is, you know, kind of creepy and they, they can just make you do what they want. So she tries to use it on him. And I mean, it works, but he's kind of like, Oh, you know, I can resist better than most right but he can't resist this. So he has to put his hand in this thing. And, uh, and she's got the Gom Jabbar, which is like this needle pressed against his neck. Right. If she touches him with it, he's going to die. So he puts his hand in there and he's like, what's in there. And she's like pain. Yeah. And you're like, Whoa. Yeah, Whoa. This is where shit gets really real. Yeah. So, the Gom Jabbar, the idea of the gum char is that it kills only animals, right? If you're a real human, then your awareness of your own self and body might be powerful enough to counteract and control your instincts. And that's what makes you a human. And so no man has ever been tested with this box, 

M: Like it's just women?

C: Yeah. That's what we mean. Not no human, but, no, man. So she, basically she kind of like starts whispering to him like. First you feel a tingling and then you'll feel heat, then you're feel burning. And then like all of a sudden, like you get this vision of his hand resting in his box, like smoking.

M: Yeah and it’s all gross.

C: The flesh is searing and blood's pouring out. 

M: Don't let your kids watch us. This totally scarred me as a kid. 

C: It’s really gross. And then, you know, he's doing the, like, I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer, little death, like the really famous Dune line. And it's like, awesome. The hand burning goes on and on and on, and the baby did not like the hand burning, so she just like kept asleep for the whole thing. She was not into it, but, uh, okay. So that, that whole thing about like, so, you know, the difference between being human and an animal, right? Yeah. Okay. That, that bugs me. I got to say that, that whole thing, that whole division between animals and humans is it comes from a very Eurocentric view of like, you know, you, you can't be instinctual. You have to overcome that. You have to control your instinct.

M: Like rationality. 

C: Right! And what do you control that instinct for? Well look at the society that is sprung up out of that idea. Right? You've got like this 90 generation eugenics program. You've got like. Plans within plans. If we're looking like this is, this is like vastly far into the future and socially are things really, very good? Like, no, they're terrible. This is the thing with, this is like space feudalism. There's these massive, like giant social programs to create the universe’s super being, but basically everything else around these programs is actually horrible. 

M: Everything else sucks for like everyone else.

C: Actually billions of people die. Like not to get too far into it, but basically half the universe at this point is completely addicted to the spice and their bodies actually rely on it. So, when we talk about, you know, like Paul disrupting spice production and stuff, like. Just results: billions of people just die. 

M: Yeah. Yeah. So it's a really like a dystopian future. Like definitely Dune is not like Dune is not the future that I want ever. You know, it's, it's, it's really interesting, but it's horrific. 

C: So yeah. So, and part of that is like taking all these young people and kids and putting their hands in boxes and burning them up. And then of course, like afterwards, you know, he passes this test and she tells him to pull his hand out of the box and his hand is totally fine.  And she's like, no woman, child has ever withstood so much. 

M: And I'm just, okay. And we were both just like scoffing. We were like as if. 

C: So if some guy has the, you know, has a higher pain tolerance in women, but of course, he's the wonder boy, you know? He's not just, he's not just, you know, Paul Atreides.

M: He's special.

C: He's special. He is the ultimate being. All right.

M: And then she tells him about the Kwisatz Haderach though, which is interesting. She kind of like plants that idea in his mind that he might be like, I don't know why she'd do that. He's clearly kind of a shit. Don't stroke that dude’s ego

C: Well, there's all sorts of reasons she does that, I guess. 

M: Okay. Plans within plans? 

C: Yes. The Harkkonen. Okay, so you, you now you see the Harkonnen and they're just like, the Harkonnen are

M: Outrageous.

C: You know, there's no one badder than the Harkonnen. There's, you know, they're just like, they're ridiculous.

M: They're just so over the top, bad. So evil, they, they, they kick puppies and you know, like.

C: Oh, they do way worse than they really do. It's it's outrageous. They, they install heart plugs in everybody that like works for them or everybody who's Harkonnen so that like they can pull, just pull the plug at any time, and kill people. And Baron Harkonnen, like in the book too, is, is, is just described just so disgustingly, right? Like he's massively obese. And he has these suspender hooks in his flesh that sort of allow him to like, not, you know, be crushed by his own weight, uh, in the movie. He like, he floats around in this thing, like, like a postulant balloon and postulant. I mean that, because in movies, just like his face is just covered in sores.

M: It's got these huge, like weeping boils all over his face and his head and his neck that he needs to be constantly tended by this doctor. He's like really creepy and it's like, yeah, we love all of your diseases, my Baron. I love them. He can't, he can't just be these people can't just be bad and evil. They have to be like physically disgusting. And like in every possible way, you just have to be like, totally, you know, like you have to feel revulsion for them. So it's really over the top.

C: Just in case you weren't sure, like so much of this movie or so much of the book I should say is like very subtle. And in the way that it discusses, like what it talks  about, but like the movie is totally not subtle. It's ridiculous. And like, as things go through, like the Harkonnen's never. become subtle people. Like they're always just outrageous.

M: And, and the thing is, is if that were, if that were the case, they wouldn't actually be as powerful as they are, you know? So in the book I enjoy, I enjoy the subtlety of the book a lot more. Although, you know, some people find it a bit slow. I got to admit. When you, when you first start reading Dune, it can seem a bit slow, but get past that and yeah, you'll, you're all good. So when you go into to get in Giedi Prime, uh, it opens up with Mentat Piter de Vries who's kind of like the evil Mentat, like Thufir Hatwat is like the good Mentat. Piter de Vries is the evil Mentant and Piter is actually like addicted two, I think it's, it's the spice of the juice that they have to drink to get their Mentat powers. So it was like, basically this kind of like shaking, useless addict in a lot of ways. Um, and it's like also like very weird and problematic. He's really, really evil. And so he's introduced. And he kind of brings the Baron this message saying that the Duke Leto Atreides is not accepting that like the completion of like this vendetta, they call it Kanly.

C: Well, yeah. Right. And we didn't really explain, cause we just figured you'd know that, uh, Harkonnen have been, they've been, they were given sort of like the job of extracting the spice, on Dune, on Arrakis and now they're being moved so that Atreides is going to take over, but the Emperor has, has sort of set up a situation where he's going to help Harkonnen coming back in and take their, you know, take out the Atreides.

M: You know, so it's all this kind of crap. So, so yeah. And they're, these are also two feuding houses. They've really not been getting along for reasons we're not going to get into. And so, yeah, so, you know, there's sort of like this, like fake attempt to have some peace and Duke Leidos is like: No.

C: Yeah. Was like, no way you still suck.  And so then you're introduced to the Baron's two nephews. Fayd and Rabban. And so Rabbanis kind of like similar to the Duke. He's kind of like disgusting, evil. Like he literally crushes this little animal in like a juice box and then drinks, its blood, like this live animal. It's really weird. And then Fayd is Sting and he's obviously the hot one of the family. He's like really skinny. He's got his hair dung up, all kind of like punk. He's like, all like radiant looking and shiny and like clearly the favorite. And it's like, it just is gross and creepy. Honestly, it's wearing this, like they're all wearing these weird leather jumpsuits. 

M: Yeah. It's all strange and fits into that whole aesthetic too. 

C: Yeah. All right. So whatever, I don't know. 

M: Well, they do, they do introduce the idea that like they, the Harkonnens have somebody who's working for them that's in the Duke's house. Who's close to the Duke. 

C: Yeah. They have a traitor.

M: Yeah. And so then the Baron is so excited about this and he flies up, he pours oil over himself. When he flies around and there's this like young kind of like, boy who's like planting flowers or whatever. And then he grabs the boy, pulls out his heart plug, bates in his blood, plays in his blood, and then he's like laughing and everybody's like, yay! You're the best!

C: Oh my god, it is so bad. 

M: Oh, it's so bad. It's so stupid. Okay, so then we are flashed to this seer on Arrakis; she's got that blue, blue, blue eyes of, of the Fremen and, uh, you know, she's, she's reciting part of this prophecy that the Fremen have. About how, you know, this, this person's going to come and bring Jihad and cleanse the world and bring us out of darkness. And yeah, so some serious, seriously problematic things with Orientalism that Herbert had, like this whole thing, it's like Lawrence, Lawrence of Arabia in space. Like a lot of this really is. So that, you know, like I just, I think like, I don't know when Dune came out, maybe people weren't familiar with some of these words, like jihad and stuff. Like it's so familiar to us now post nine 11. But you know, but I think like, you know, when I was younger, I wouldn't recognize that word. You know, so maybe like, I think a lot of writers back, you know, back then they would just like, they'd be like, “Hey, I'm going to pick a culture and I'm going to just like, take some random words from it.” And you know. And that's actually one of the problematic things about the history of science fiction. That's also how Ursula K. Le Gwen started like her parents were both anthropologists.

C: Right, right, right.

M: And you see it a lot when you read some of the old stuff, you know, you're like w w wait, that's like, those are real people, you know?

C: Yeah. You're, you're totally just writing about these people except in space. And. Insultingly. 

M:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's kinda lazy, you know, and they just like pick an existing culture, usually like, you know, one that's considered exotic and use terms from their language and, and yeah, just, they don't even bother to like come up with, with like a new societal structure or anything, you know, they just see it through their own, their own lens and interpret it. You know, in science fiction. So that's something that's always bugged me. Like I really like Dune, but that always gets me. I'm like, I consider that really lazy writing. It's one of those things with Dune. lt's like so much of Dune is like, So like, you just can't agree with it at all. The whole thing is basically about eugenics.

C: Why do we like it so much?

M: Well, it's really well written. The other thing that I really liked that it does is it really talks about the role of religion and colonization, right? Like, that's the thing that I remember when I was reading it is like, I was like, wow. Like the whole thing with the prophecy and the Kwasar Hedarch  in a way that those ideas are spread is like fully in the service of colonialism in the ways that like the Bene Gesserit like spread and then maintain power. Like it was really, anyway. So they all, you know, they being: Paul, Leto, and Jessica, as well as like another random bulldog, make it to Arrakis after a super psychedelic space folding scene. Which, you know, if, if you're going to watch the movie, 

C: Watch it for this space folding scene.

M: It’s so psychedelic. And so they get there and they meet Dunkin Idaho, who  is like super important in the series. But like in the book is like a character. I would say like out of, you know, you got Paul, who's the central figure, but the most, probably one of the most important and interesting characters is Duncan Idaho and his evolution throughout the series. Right so, but in the, in, in the movie, he's there like twice. 

C: Twice.

M: Like one of those is like for him dying. Essentially. So Duncan Duncan Idaho he's been among the Fremen. 

C: He's gone native 

M: He's he's totally gone native. He's all dusty. That's how, you know, you've gone native in this movie. It's like, you're kind of dirty, right? You're in a desert planet. You got to be covered in dust and you don't bath because it's too much water. 

C: Yeah, exactly. 

M: So, he's realized being among the Fremen, becoming one of them that there's actually way more than they originally thought. No one's ever been able to take a census of the Fremen.

C: Right.

M: And they just thought that there were like a couple of them scattered around because Duen is so hard to live on, but he's realized that there's actually vast numbers of them.

C: And that they control Arrakis, which in the books, again, is something that nobody wants to accept because they're seen as these, like just, you know, sort of cultureless people living on a, on a barren planet, right? Like what, what could they possibly control? There's nothing there except for the spice and the, and the giant worms, which are terrifying and horrific. And there's no way that these people. Couldn't deal with that. Like they just run around and hide from them. Right. So they're considered to be very primitive.Like the Harkonnen specifically have very little like nothing but contempt for the Fremen at the beginning. They just, like, they're not even worried about them. They're just, you know, savages. And, and so this idea that there would be any value to, to the Fremen or, or any, any, acknowledgement that they might have any sort of power or anything to share at all. It's just really like counter to this whole galactic culture. That's, that's arisen.

M: Like at best, like 

C: It's transgressive to give them any sort of credit. Yeah, totally. But, and like part of what makes Leto and Paul such good guys is that they're immediately like, “Oh, interesting!”. Like, let's think about this.

M: Okay. So you think about that, like in, in the sense of colonization, right? So, you know?

C: Like these guys are the liberals. 

M: Exactly. You're like, Oh, well maybe these primitive savages do have something to offer us, but like, it's not about, it's not, you know, it, it's not really about valuing their culture or anything like that.

C: Like, this is a really nice, still suit. Wow. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so speaking of still suits. Paul and Lido go on a spice mining inspection. And they're gifted with these Fremen manufactured, still suits and still suits are what you wear in the deep desert. And they like, they're so cool. They claim all your water, like your perspiration, your urine, your feces, and it kind of like it separates the salt out and then it purifies the water. So you can drink it again. And it's like really awesome. 

M: The still suits are the coolest part. The coolest like technology of this, I find because it's like it, this is, this is a situation where people have created something that allows them to, to live like adapt perfectly to their environment. So it's a heat exchanger. Like everybody who reads Dune just like imagines a still suit. It's probably not very comfortable, but it's worth it.

C: You probably have to have a tube up your butt.

M: Yeah, we talked a little bit about that.

(Laughter)

C: But nevertheless very cool.And then, and, and so Duke Leto has to be shown how to wear it. Because, you know, he doesn't really know. But Paul just knows. 

M: Yep. He just knows. Ooh. 

C: And then the guy who's like working with him, Liet Kynes  is, you know, he's amazed. He says he quotes this prophecy. “They shall know your ways as if born to them”. And  this is the Imperial Ecologist. So this is, this is like, this is the white guy who's gone native, like, but he's really, really gone native, not like Duncan Idaho. Duncan Idaho went scouting. But this guy has been living among, among the Fremen for long enough that he knows their prophecies and stuff like this. And he's developed sort of that contempt for people who are not Fremen, people who don't know how to live in the planet, because really like these, these, you know, Imperial administrators that come are helpless. They don't know how to live in the planet. In fact, the whole point is that they, they cannot live on the planet without all of their, you know, they, you know, they bring an insane amount of water with them. Like they just, they couldn't go out into the desert. They would die immediately. Right. So, you know, the Fremen and this guy, this, this guy who's gone native, just like regard them with contempt which is understandable.

M: It's actually one of the things that the movie really fails on because like in the books, so much of the book is like devoted to the culture and the cultural importance of water and like how shocking it is that like the Atreides bring so much water that they have growing plants in their homes that they have. I think they have like a pool or something.

C: Yeah, this fountain like it just like the obscene use of, of, of a resource that is so limited on that planet.

M: And it's like, it's actually less about like, the importance of the spice. Like when you went there, like looking at the Fremen and stuff, it's like, all I'm doing, it's all about the water. That's way less about the spice. Like the spice is kind of just this political tool that they use. And it's actually more about the water and what they can do with the water 

C: Well, to the Fremen, the spices aren’t that important. And it goes like this goes back to, you know you know, the Portuguese and the Spanish looking for gold, you know, that, which wasn't very valuable and, you know, in destroying things that are valuable or, you know, going after the oil, when it's, it's literally like polluting the water. It's killing the animals. It's destroying everything that actually gives life so that you can have this commodity that you can sell. Right. And we're supposed to value that, like, you know, these, these primitives, they don't value what's really important. Well, no, like in this case, water is important and you know, water is important.

M: Water really is, but it's weird because like there is that tension in the Dune books. But the movie just totally erases it. The spice! Screw the emperor! Like we're going to get him.

C: Maybe, maybe just there's nothing about the water that it would be understandable.

M: I don't know, man. 

C: Yeah. Anyway, that was a bummer. But anyway, so they get onto this like super steam punk runabout ship. It's got quilted walls. It's got more of these like old school mics and they're like flying over stuff. And meanwhile then it like kind of like they're on this adventure or whatever, and then cuts to Yue. And he’s conducting a bunch of autopsies on these like dead Harkonnens who've been hiding in the castle or whatever. And finds a message in one of their bodies, like sewn into the body.

M: Yeah, so those are his instructions. 

C: Yeah. And so you learned that he's actually this traitor and, but he's not supposed to be able to even be a traitor. He's got what's called Imperial Conditioning, which means that like he's so trustworthy, he could actually be a doctor to the emperor himself, but like something's happened. So now he's, he's obviously this trader and then it like cuts back to this steam punk spaceship. And they're approaching the mining site and Leto spots a worm approaching. And so they warn, they warn the site that's like that's mining the spice. And they're like, cool, thanks but then they realized like, so what usually happens is like a transport will come along and lift up the mining like thing. I don't know what...

M: the miner?

C: The miner. Yeah. They'll lift it up and fly it away out of, out of danger, away from these giant sand worms. Right. But, the transport doesn't get back to them. Maybe it's been captured by the Harkonnen. So Leto decides he's going to go rescue everybody. And, and what Dr. Kynes is amazed by is that he doesn't care about the spice. He wants to get all 26 of the workers out. So he worries about the human life. Right. And again, that's a bit transgressive compared to, you know, other administrations. Like this idea that you would care about human life at all over the commodity. It's just like, Whoa, suddenly, you know, he's just being a decent guy. He's just doing what he should, but that's like, “Wooooh!”. You know, all the cookies for you, Leto. 

M: Wow. Leto. You're so great.

C: So, yeah, they managed to save everybody and then you get your first, like real glimpse of the worm. Like it's huge size. And like actually that's something that movie does really well like how massive they are. And like, so phallic though thrusting up out of the desert to like destroy things. Like it's so outrageous, 

M: But they're fun. They're fun to look at. 

C: Yeah. They are fun. And they are, you know, you can just imagine like getting swallowed up by one and like getting gnashed on its teeth. So going back, Shaddup Mapes. Can we talk about the Shaddup Mapes?

M: Yeah!

C: Because she's so cool. 

M: Yeah, she's great.

C: She's the coolest. She's kind of like introduced as part of like the household staff and she introduced herself to Paul later as  “I'm the shadow to Mapes, the housekeeper”. So creepy. 

M: So, okay. So Paul, Paul eats some spice and he starts tripping out 

C: Whoa, tripping balls. And he trips like five times. 

M: Yeah. And he’s in his room. There's a lot of tripping balls. So he's in his room and there's this assassination attempt with this little like flying like hypodermic needle and. Anyway, so it it's attracted by movement. And you know, the, the thing about this is that he shouldn't be able to catch it. You know, he's got like, look in the books. He's, he's a lot younger than he looks  in the movie. He's like a kid, right? So he's not supposed to have these reflexes that he does. He's not supposed to be such a good warrior, but he is, he's like the ultimate being. So, he grabs it before,  it like sticks itself into the Shaddup Mapes because she opens the door and that attracts this thing. And so she warns him that there's a traitor in the house. Right. And also more importantly, she's like, you know, she identifies herself as a Fremen. She's like, you saved my life. You know, now I owe you my life. So it's like this, you know, Oh, we have this, like this thing, you know, it's not about loyalty. It's not about this. It's like, you've done this thing for me now. You know, now my life is owed to you.

C: Yeah. Like we Fremen take our obligations very seriously. 

M: Their honor is like, is all yeah.

C: So,  kind of like news of the assasination attempt spreads and you know, like all of the houses, defenses, like are doubled too. The house shield that surrounds the house is like up and it's impenetrable. We hear. But then you see a shot of these Harkonnen ships like approaching the planet and all of a sudden, like very shortly after there's an attack, the Shaddup Mapes dies in Leto’s arms. Then we see Leto get shot with this dart when you see, obviously that it's by Yueh who sabotaged shield generators, which means that these Harkonnens they can get in and they do, and they're all wearing like black leather hazmat suits.

M: Yeah, the hazmat suits kind of reminded me of like a welding helmet too, like, yeah.

C: Yeah. So they're dressed like totally ridiculously. But it's kind of like suggested that like the reason that they're fighting and the reason, because they're really strong and they like throw like all these, you know, Atreides guys, like off of them pile on and stuff like this. So it's kind of suggested that maybe they're being drugged or something like that, or they've been, you know, mutated or something. They overwhelm the house. 

M: Yeah. And so Dr. Yueh has basically he's done this. His conditioning was overcome and he, but he still wants to revenge. He realizes that the Duke Harkonnen is going to gloat over capturing Leto and he's going to get really close. So he gives the Duke a poisoned tooth. He's like, remember when you see him, when he gets close, remember the tooth. Bite down on it and exhale, forcefully. And you know, you'll, you'll poison the Duke. You'll kill him. And it all has something to do with like you know, uh, the doctor's wife, we don't know like, is she dead? Or were they holding her hostage? So he had to do this, right. And he says in return, if you do this, if you kill him, I'm going to save Paul and Jessica. I'm going to, I'm going to save your wife and your son. And, and so, yeah, that that'll happen. So the Harkonnen attack. We got You know, he, he, he, he sees Paul, Paul and Jessica and he's like, okay, like, they're, they're going to just throw them into the desert where they can be eaten by a worm, you know, why not get rid of the evidence?

C: Yeah, it seems, it seems like a thing. So Paul and Jessica are captured and trapped and they're, they're kind of like going off. And then of course the Baron and Piter de Vries swoop in to kind of gloat over the Duke. Who's like essentially been poisoned and is very slowly dying.  So he's at their mercy. But the Ducale signet ring is not on his hand. Like this is kind of the Baron’s ultimate goal to get that ring to like I don't know, prove his dominance or whatever, probably for some super ridiculous evil reason. 

M: Yeah. And then they're both kind of like, you know, Leto is like disoriented. He's kind of like hallucinating a little bit and they're both kind of like leaning over. Cause he's crying. They're trying to figure out what's going on. And then the Baron gets kind of like freaked out. Like why is he crying? And he backs off and Piter leans over and Lido sees him, but thinks that he's the Baron. So bites down on this tooth and kills Piter de Vries. 

C: Kills the wrong guy!

M: Yeah. And Harkonnen survives.

C: Sucky.

M: Yeah, totally sucky. So the Baron obviously is thrilled to be alive. And then just puts Raban in charge and Raban, eventually gets known, gets to be known as the Beast.

C: Yeah. Yeah. So meanwhile, Paul and Jessica, they, they take over the transport that, that, you know, they're in that they're captured in, they take it over. It's crippled. They fly it to a rock in the desert, you know, because the worms can't come through the rock. So they sort of like crashed there. And then they have this encounter with, with a worm and they have to run away from, from the worm to another place. And then they stumbled upon all these Fremen and Jessica overpowers their leader, Stillgar. And that he's amazed by that. He's like, wow, if you can, you can overpower the strongest of us, teach us your way. And Paul runs into Chani, his future love of his life. You know, and she's like, I was never going to let you hurt my tribe. So they're among the Fremen now.

M: Yeah. Do you hear that? 

C: Oh, wait. 

M: Oh yes. I think it's, I think it's our, it's our first...

C: Yeah, it's going to be our first dispatches from the future. 

M: Okay, great. Excellent. Here it comes. Yeah.

(Intro to Dispatch from the Future)

M: All right. So I guys, Hey, it's us again. We're back. Apologies for, I guess. All the dispatches sort of got scrambled. So we, we might've had you guys a bit worried or, and, and, or confused. Yeah. Or, or both. Um, I know at least for us you know, we had this really big laser battle just just a little while ago, and we've just managed to make it back up to the spaceship. But from our understanding, you know, It sounds like, you know, things got really mixed up there and people may have been left really, really confused. Just before we get into that, I just wanted to congratulate you Chelsea for having your third child back then. I'm currently nursing our like 200th child. So like not yours and mine, but like, we're the same person. So this will be your child. Yeah. So congratulations to everybody involved. 

C: Right. I guess lots of kids you're going to have lots and lots of kids. Yeah. So we, we just wanted to, uh, you know, before we kind of move forward, just kind of explain what was going on. You guys are probably super worried about all of that. So let's just like, let's just. Let you know what happened. Yeah. Okay. So.

(Dispatch of the Future consisting of whispering, chanting, and background music)

M: Holy crap. Who or what, what is this? What are you doing in our ship? How did, how did you get here? Incredibly long, really annoying intro music. I was speechless the entire time. What is going on

C: Who are you?

(guttural alien noise)

M: Um, I don't think I can say that.

C: I don't think I can say that either. Do you have like a nickname?

Alien: My family calls me (alien noise).

M: But we'll, we're not your family. That seems a little intimate. 

Alien: My friends call me (alien noise), but you can also just call me Samuel de Champlain. 

Both: Champlain?

Alien: Yeah

C: Who are you and why are you on our ship?

Alien: When I looked up on the Hudson Bay, any eBay for books of the kindest colonialist in the world, and I found some things on a champagne, so I am a female. So I went to grow Champagne. 

M: Grow Champagne, but why, why were you researching Samuel de Champlain? 

Alien: It just popped up on the Hudson Bay. eBay. What were you searching for?

M: Colonialists. Nice colonialists. Why, why is Samuel de Champlain the nicest colonialist? 

A: Cause he's nice, because alien technology!

C: uh, Oh, okay. Um, so wait, so why, why are you here being girl Champlain?

Alien: Because you are, because you're a colonial SOC.

M: We’re not colonialists were anti-colonialist.

Alien: Yes, colonist, anti colonialist. It doesn’t really matter.

C: Um, that's not, that's not exactly 

Alien: It doesn't matter! 

C: So, but, okay, so well you, yeah, you're upsetting the baby. Maybe you could like tone it down a little bit. Why are you here again? So you think we're colonialists and how is that going to help you?

Alien: I need help because I've never colonize a planet before. My family had sent me here, because they said that Earthis the most easiest place to colonize because it's been colonized so many times that it should be so easy for a person with skin like me.

M: I see. So it's like a pity job, we’re like your pity colonial job?

C: Wait, so you've come to colonize earth. Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, wait, hold on. No idea how much time and effort went into detail. We just finished decolonizing. 

M: You can’t come in and recolonize us. Wow. That’s hardcore. Why would you want to do that in the first place?

Alien: Because my father and my mother and my grandfather and my grandma, but I could tell you the names, but…

M: No. That's okay. Stay away. 

Alien: There are colonized universes. Like they could be (alien speak). That's why my grandfather did that or (alien noise)

M: But wait, if you, okay. I have to know because your names are very interesting. If you were going to colonize our planet, you would rename it? 

Alien: Uh, yes. Uh, I already have a great name, so I had to wait, let me find my paper.

M: And for that what would you call it? 

Alien: I would call it (alien noise).

C: What does that mean?

M:  That sounds like what happens when I get a tummy ache. Right? What does that mean?

Alien: It means the person who colonialized this plane, it is the most epic, awesome majestic person in the whole world.

M:  Wow. Talk about vanity project. Yeah. 

C: Um, so Girl Champlain, I don't, I don't think that, you know, you maybe know quite enough about Earth to realize why you shouldn't be colonizing us. Um, maybe you can hang out here and drink some tea with us, you know, some Muscogee. And we can talk about this situation. Yeah. Does that sound like something you might be interested in doing. 

M: Yeah. Okay. Well, we have, we have a really nice room. We call it a broom closet, but that means the place where the coolest colonizers hang out.

Alien: Oh, so that is it. It is in English. 

M: Yes, yes, yes. Uh, so yeah, you can hang out in the broom closet, which is right next to the laundry room. And laundry room means the place next to the place where the coolest and most epic colonizers.

Alien: Do they have labels?

M: Well, you can make some, we have a label maker you can totally make.

Alien: Well if i colonoize this magest space. I need to rename it (alien noise).

C: Yeah, absolutely. Also Girl Champlain I've got to ask you because I, I noticed it when you came in and if you were a colonial space alien, is your luscious, beautiful mustache, natural?

Alien: I am offended that you ask it is unnatural with some aliens, but good alien magic.

C: Alien sprinkle magic mustache. Okay.

Alien: You take it, um, from this little jar and you spread it all over your face and it makes a majestic moustache. Then you go to the (alien noie) shop to cut it in shape. So I cut it as you can see it to be two little, two little hearts on the end of my mustache, because it's fabulous. So especially the thing sticking (alien noise).

C: Okay, well, uh, so you go hang out and we will talk to you later. Yeah. Okay. Goodbye.

(end of dispatch from the future)

M: Well, thank goodness we didn't die in the laser battle.

C: Yeah. Is it just me or do our lives just keep getting weirder and weirder?

M: Definitely weirder. So they've now they're now, or we're now they're now we're not whatever we're no, they let's just use they. They works.

C: Yeah. Are we othering ourselves? 

M: Maybe? Us in the future are dealing with the encroachment of an alien. Who is decided to be

C: Girl Champlain?

M: Right. To take following the footsteps of a French colonizer. 

C: And just when we feel like we got it together, you know, all of a sudden there's like, 

M: I don't know.

C: Settlers coming back with corn syrup and then there's alien Girl Champlain.

M: And alien recolonization and weird sounds. And wow. 

C: It's, it's complex. 

M: It's hard. It's hard being us. Are we sure we want to go back?

C: It's complicated.

M: Yeah. But whatever. I mean, at this point, it’s kind of inevitable.

C: We do go back. 

M: We have gone back. We have, we'll have gone back. 

C: We will have gone back. We have will, would have well done. Did a subjective.

M: Okay. Toto. Woo. 

C: More Toto!

M: More guitar solos. Toto, Toto obliges. All right. So we're like over an hour here, so we're just sort of rush through some of the rest of this. 

C: I mean, you know, it it's Dune, you know, it, we know, you know, it it's Dune.

M: We know. 

C: You've read the book. So, so we, so naked Sting. Gotta give a mention to naked Sting even mentioned a naked Sting’s g-string with his weird it's like, I dunno like a feather metal feather loin piece?

M: Leather also, right?

C: Yes.

M: Metal feather leather loin piece. Wow. Somebody makes those customs somewhere. Shout out to that person.

C: Just comes out gleaming. 

M: So gleaming.

C: The whitest white guy ever to white ever. 

M: Yep. Yeah.

C: The evilest of the evil gingers. 

M: So, okay. All right. Now, they're in with the Fremen, Paul. and Jessica are. And Paul gets his Indian name, man.

C: Oh God. I forgot about that. 

M: Usul!

C: So they, and they just are like, Oh yeah. Okay. You're Indian now. Like yeah. Indian name. So the strength of the base of the pillar, there you go. 

M: He hardly had to do anything and then he's like, but you also have to choose your man's name. And he's like, what do you call the mouse shadow of the second moon? Well, we call that Muadib. So that's what he is Muadib

C: Whoa. And then he's like, Oh, my tripping balls, like, you know, adventures like have come true. You know, like this is like every. You know, like every early 20 something who dabbles in drugs, like biggest dream. Like it's all actually super true. I'm totally sober right now.

M: I really am the most important person in the whole universe. So it's interesting because what this, what this movie tells you. Is that if you act really sure of yourself, when you, when you get in with the Indians act really sure of yourself, just like walk around really regally, like, you know, very stoic, take the talks and walk around like that. Cause, you know, Indians respect that and and, and just buy into their spiritual stuff. Like, you know, hint that, do you have some sort of like a deep spirituality as well? You know, cause that'll vibe with the Indians. And be open to like, you know, giving yourself a name. If you need to, you know, have one prepared, something really like that will impress the pants off them.

C: Yeah. You know, it also, it also helps if you're a part of a 90 generations, long eugenics program in which they've implanted a prophecy among the natives so that you can draw on that. So like use their methodology to assert yourself in that culture. 

M: That's right. So right now start training your kids to go repeat a prophecy over and over and over again to some uncontacted tribe so that your progeny down the road can come in there and just be like, yo prophecy here.

C: Yeah. Oh, that sounds familiar. I'm just going to happen to do all these things. 

M: Yeah. And that's how you get in with the natives.

C: It seems complicated, but it's going to be worth it in the end. It's really, we really know how to party. 

M: So then, you know, you, you find out that the Fremen have been saving up water because Arrakis is super dry as a desert planet, but they've been, they have all these caches of water everywhere, and eventually they're going to change the face of Arrakis. And as Molly pointed out, it's not even really their idea.

C: Yeah, it's so Lyat Kynes’s, his dad's idea. And he's like, the emperor’s, is like the first Imperial Ecologist. 

M: Right. So it's like the Fremen are constantly. They're not actors. They are acted upon 

C: And acted through the Fremen and do all of the work.

M: They’re tools.

C: Yeah. And it's, it's like weird. Like the whole thing is just so bizarre. Right. It's like, and there their tools are like tools in all of these different ways. So it's like part of Kynes’s idea. And so he's going to use the Fremen because he, like, he loves Arrakis, and he wants to make this change. And so like, they become his tools for that. And then like, they become Paul Atreides tools to do this completely other thing.

M: Right and the Bene Gesserit have been using them for generations, for the spice, the water of life, which is like this ritual they go through to become a Reverend Mother. They drink this poison. They have to be able to transmute it into water in their bodies before it kills them in that. It's their, their Rite of Passage. So they need them for that. And yes, as along that they've been implanting this, this prophecy in them. So they're just like, whatever culture that they've created has been around the meddling that others have done. So they don't; do they have a true culture? Not really, it's sort of like, you know, no.

C: Yeah. There's, there's just like very, you know, especially not in the movie, you know, in the books, there's like some hints of that, but like, it's also not entirely clear because of the way that they've been in the meddled with. Right? Yeah. Oh, so, you know, time passes, I guess. Chani and Usul get it on. Her hair now goes from like up and kind of like a bad-ass bunto like a floofy and down and eighties curly, like big, giant hair. And then she kind of like loses a lot of her bad-assery 

M: Yeah. Yeah. She's just sort of like the, the woman, the chick. 

C: Yeah. 

M: You know? 

C: Yeah. She used to be like pull a knife on him and it's likeI wouldn't have let you hurt my tribe, prepare to die. 

M: Now, she's just the love interest, right? It's all about him. And Jessica when she escaped, she was pregnant with Paul's sister. And she goes through this thing where she has to become a Reverend Mother. So while she's pregnant, she drinks the water of life. She turns the poison to water, but the weird thing about this is like this: during this ritual, all of the Reverend Mother ever, down all of the generations become linked to all of their memories go into the new Reverend Mother. So like, so the baby becomes aware in the womb of these, all these generations of Reverend Mother before. So it's like becoming aware in the womb and not just aware of yourself, but like aware, like of all these memories

C: Yeah, lifetimes of memories. 

M: Forever. Yeah. Yeah. So the issue of that, of like what that does to the baby you know of this of this girl is also really interesting in the books, but in, in the movie, she's just like this weird. She's so creepy.

C: She's just like hyper creepy. 

M: Yeah. So she's born prematurely, Aliyah, and yeah. She's like. Like, yes. So creepy. Like I want, I want little sack away on a look. I'm going to dress her up as Aliyah on one Halloween. 

C: Oh my God. That'd be. That would actually be awesome. 

M: That'd be so cool. Cause she's like she's baby. And she's got like, well, she's not a baby, but she's like, I don't know. What do you fear? She is in the movie like six. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. And she's like missing all these teeth and she's got that like (guttural noise), and she's like on it.  she's freaking it out. My brother's going to kill you and take over the entire empire.

C: It's so creepy. Like calm down St. Ellie of the knife.

M: It's so great. So anyway, basically Paul now, You know, in the movie, it's definitely not explained very well, sort of becomes the leader, the war leader of all of the Fremen and or chief. C: Yeah. The war chief. 

M: Exactly. Because he's, you know, he's just like the Fremen couldn't do this thing. They couldn't like they couldn't throw away these, these corrupt administrators, these colonial administrators, without Paul. They needed an outsider to come, get his Indian name, go through some like spiritual shit, you know, get in with one of the women there. You know, fight, fight them and do all these things to become better than them.

C: Yeah. Right. 

M: He's like, he's like more Indian than the Indian, of course. And so he says we will kill until no Harkonnen breathe Arrakian air. So they're just like, Whoa. They start with the planet. They're going to kill all of the Harkonnen. And then they're going to unleash Holy Jihad across the universe.

C: Yeah. But there's one more test that he has to be asked. 

M: This is the most important test in order to lead them. He says, I must conquer Shai’allud.

C: Hurray!

M: The giant word. 

C: Yeah. Yes. So  this is actually a pretty cool scene. So it is great scene. They put out a  thumper and a thumper kind of like sends like percussive vibrations into the sand. And that attracts the worm. And then of course he calls the biggest worm ever.  

M: It's not just like a regular worm. No he called the big one. 

C: Usul’s called the big one Stilgar says. Like a proud dad. 

M: Totally. Right. And it just proves how happy he is. Cause imagine if it was like a little baby where I'm like, no, and he's like, Oh.

C: yeah, it's not the unconquered giant Allud, I guess. So. Yeah. So he goes up there and then the way that they ride the worms is they basically have this kind of like pick and they go and they run up behind the warm, as it is kind of above the sand coming towards the thumper and they wrench open one of its scales, which kind of like exposes kind of like the soft flesh under the scale, which is really irritating.

M: Yeah. 

C: And so the worm like rolls over to get away from the irritation.

M: As you would. 

C: And so like, then you hold on as the worm's rolling and it takes you all the way up onto the top of the worm and then you like put hooks in it and you ride that worm to the crap.

M: To Toto. 

C: Yeah. And so then like 20 other freshmen, like Paul Atreides is like up there, like leashed onto the worm and like, yeah. Like, woo with his like lasso.

M: And I was like, get on there because it's so huge. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. Then they start this like massive guerilla war.

C: Right. So that was this coming of age ceremony. He became a true Indian and yeah guerrilla war.

M: Yeah. 

C: So the guerilla war is like, kind of awesome. It's like the, the whole plan is just to bring spice production to a complete halt. So it's like, it's literally like a resource war.

M: Right, right. Yeah. So they shut down all the pipelines. Yeah, but in doing so, those blowing, blowing them on people. 

C: Yeah. Like killing lots of people. Yeah. Yeah. 

M: And so there's like this, this sort of like commando montage to Toto. And so over two years they, they attack and they just like completely decimate the spice production. And you know, and then Patrick Stewart, you know, Gurney Halleck, reunites with Paul. And then all of this is not good for the Beast Raban right, the nephew of Harkonnen. And so the emperor, he gets another visit from the navigators and they're like, dude, you had one job, you had one job. And so the emperor goes to Arrakis to be like, all right, Harkonnens you sucked. 

C: Yeah and he brings 50 legions of Sardaukar terror troops which is like not only the entire army, but also the entire reserves, his entire armed forces yeah to Arrakis. And he says like, this is genocide. This is just going to be the complete wiping out of all life on Arrakis so that we can just have this spice, like.Yeah, just fully obvious. Yeah, 

M: No, no, no iding behind any niceties. It's like, no, this is genocide. 

C: Yeah. So Paul hears about this and he realizes that he's got to take the water of life, like his impressions, like his ability to see the future and see what he has to do has like kind of gone dark. 

M: He realized he has no more future. So the only thing left for him is to take the Water of Life, which is supposed to be reserved for these Reverend Mothers. Right. No man has taken it and survived. So again, he has to, once again, prove how exceptional he is by transmuting this poison into water. And there's, there's this thing too, throughout the movie, they're talking about what is the relationship between the worms and the spice. And they keep hinting that there is one, but they never really get into it. And the relationship is really important in the books. But whatever. So he, he takes, he takes the water of life and of course he survived. 

C: Yeah. And he survives. And the big reveal is that the worm is the spice; the spice is the worm. That's right. So the worms create the spice and are also sort of like created by the spice  a little bit.

M: Yeah. Yeah, well it's yeah, they have their babies, so it's, yeah, it's kind of a big deal. So he's now he's like, that's, it he's passed every test that would make him, you know, the Supreme being.

C: Yeah. And, but he's even like not only that, but now he's like, he’s both super Indian and super Reverend Mother, kind of like Supreme Being.

M: Yeah. He's taken over both of these like cultures, right? Like he's, he's, he's the ultimate in this breeding program, but they didn't choose him.

C: Right. Yeah. He grasped it for himself. So there's an entrepreneur in that way. 

M: Exactly. It's very individualistic. So yeah, he tears himself out of that breeding program. And then also rules this, you know, the Fremen. 

C: Yup. And the worms, like, as he kind of is surviving this and transforming the Water of Life in his body, all of these worms come out, like paying homage to him round. They surround him and all of the, you know, the Fremen, his like a Fedaykin, you know, like warrior guard is like kind of like huddling around and being like, Holy crap, why aren't they attacking? But it's because he's just that. 

M: He's just that special. This is what every such a special boy, a teenage boy wants to be.

C: And then he wakes up and he yells: Father, the sleeper has awaken! And was like, ah, dude, you got to get over your dad issues. Like what the show? 

M: Yeah. Yeah. And meanwhile, creepy little, you know, Aaliyah is sitting there and hissing at the Baron Harkonnen.

C: Yeah. Cause the Emperor has come down in his solid gold ship to land on the planet and he's beheaded Rabanne.

M: And he's like bring in that floating fat man. Yeah. Which like, yeah, just like Harkonnen just floats around with his postules all the time. He's just gross. He's so gross. So gross. 

C: I want one of those floaty things though. 

M: They're cool. But so they bring them in. Yeah. And yeah, she keeps like, she's distracting them while all this other stuff is going on. Basically the, you know, the Sarukadar are getting, you know, massacred and, and she kills him. 

C: Yeah. Wait! We know we need to talk about the atomics. Oh yeah. We need to talk about the atomics because, okay so there's this thing where basically all of the Great Houses, they all have stores of Atomics kind of like cold war style. But there this treaty saying that they're never, ever going to use them and it's like really serious, but Paul decides to use the Atreides store of Atomics against the Shield Wall that the Emperor is protecting himself behind so that they can like get in and basically massacre everybody. Yeah. So they go there, you know, it's not really played up very much in the movie, but like in the books, like this is the ultimate act of savagery.

M: Yes. Total violation. Yeah. Like nobody, it's just like, even the Harkonnen, the most bestial, terrible, evil house. They wouldn't go there. 

C: Yeah. And Paul went there. Yeah but it’s like a righteous fury. Yeah. Using this like Yueh guy as like a traitor, because they wouldn't use the Atomics do it. But like, he goes there, he's just like screw it. 

M: Like, yeah. So it's like he throws off, you know. That's the thing too about this is like his Alliance with a Fremen is sort of his rejection of civilization. Right. He just goes full primitive with these guys and because he unleashes those primitive savages on the universe, it's just like this.

You know, this, this Holy hell that gets unleashed, but it's without any accoutrements of civilization which is insulting on so many levels, but whatever, you know, whatever it's Dune, it's fine.

C: So yeah, Aaliyah comes in and kills the Baron who's her grandfather, PS, whatever. Gaius Helen Moheme is like “kill this child”. She's an abomination. And that kind of like comes into play later because of course, all of Paul's children are abominations as well. And like all this other stuff. And then, you know, Paul comes in and is like, “Father today, I will avenge your death.” And you know, there's this big, giant battle. Baron gets killed. And then they win. Obviously they win, you know, fairly easily. Yeah. Like they just kind of overwhelm everybody. 

M:  But there's one last battle for some reason. 

C: Yeah. For some reason Fayd.

M: It works so much better in the book. 

C: It's true. It does. You know, the movie, it's just kind of like an add on but it's also just so Fayd. Like basically Fayd and Paul want to go at it with knives. Yeah. Mirroring, you know, the first fight scene way back in the day, but it's also just like, yeah. This dude is like a renowned guerrilla warrior. He can call giant megafauna worms. He can see the future. He can kill using just his voice. And you're challenging him to a knife fight? 

M: Like what, what are you like on? It makes more sense in the book.

C: Yeah. So anyway, so they fight, obviously Paul wins. And then he yells at Fayd’s dead body as its laying on the ground and cracks open the body and cracks open the floor. Yeah. And like, that's kind of like, everybody's like I surrender. You're just, you're the guy I surrender. You're the, you're the most special you're number one I give up.

M: Yeah. 

C: And then he ends it with the phrase we Fremen have a saying and I didn't bother writing the rest. Cause I was like, screw this, like Fremen, we Fremengo away, just go away. And then the movie ends when it starts to rain on Arrakis because Paul has unleashed all of this water, things are going to change dramatically. Arrakis is going to become a beautiful lush, whatever, whatever. 

M: Cause it has to change. It can't be the same. Yeah. Like you, if you don't have changed, something sleeps inside but the sleeper seldom must awaken Chelsea. So you go, all right. So baby's getting really mad out there. So, uh, okay. So I was thinking we should break this out of floating Baron Harkonnens.

C: Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's epic. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Floating Baron Harkonnens.

M: Okay, so, I love Dune, I love Dune so I'm just gonna, just based on that, I'm giving this a five, even if, even if it's not even like a, okay. And so one is like meh,five is awesome. Great. Yeah. So I'm giving this a five because the it’s Dune. And I'm just not even going to try to justify it. I hate the Orientalism of the books and the movie. I hate the way that Paul is the wonder boy, hate Paul, but I love Aaliyah because she's freaky. And unaccountably, I just love Dune. So it's a five, I'm just not even going to try to like, make you think that that's anything, but just preference. 

C: That's real. Um, I'm also going to have to go for five floating Baron Harkonnens not because the movie is particularly good 

M: Because it's not 

C: Because it's terrible, but it's also awesome. I used to have a cassette of the Dune soundtrack.

M: Oh with Toto?

C: I used to put it into my car’s cassette player, and as I  was driving West on Highway 1 to the mountains. And we just like, you'd crest over these Hills and all of a sudden (singing Dune soundtrack) you'll be up to the mountains to be there. And I was like, Sick! Like, you know, so for that reason alone five. Another reason… there was really no other reason. And I feel like Kyle Maclaughlin is like, you know, kind of like this boy next door, but like a boy next door who has some kind of like vaguely creepy habit, but it's like, he's super nice about it. Yeah. You know? 

M: Yeah. 

C: So I like Kyle Maclaughlin a lot, but same thing with, as you said, like both the books and the movie eugenics, like that is so snap, like the amount of violence, like the intense levels of misogyny that happened in both the book and the movie. I mean, I did love Jessica's hair in general. Just has incredible hair. Yeah. I loved Gaius Helen Mohiam, the women are generally very bad-ass. But yeah, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing really to justify us giving this a five.

M: No, Nope. Nothing justify it, but it's getting a five, but it's getting five, 

C: You're gonna have it. All right. That's it. So thank you for joining us on this first episode of our third season here on Metis in Space.

(Outro)