Voices of the Resurgence: S2 E6

Mark: Hello, my relatives. You're listening to Voices of the Resurgence. A podcast where you talk about indigenous topics from our own indigenous perspectives. And today, we've got a very special guest on, but before we get to that - I am your host and your only host tonight – James. I am Oglala Lakota. I am broadcasting to you from Paha Sapa in the so-called United States. And today my special guest is - if you just want to introduce yourself real quick…

James: Oh yeah, there we go. That was a very dramatic pause (laughter). My name is Mark Tilsen. Poet and educator from Porcupine, South Dakota on the pine Ridge Indian reservation and glad to be here.

James: Cool. All right, folks. So if you're wondering where the other hosts are - Sarah's at work, Sheilina’s at her res, and then Tai is visiting with family. So it is just me tonight holding down the Fort. But that is alright.

Mark: Who are you holding down the fort against? Isn't that very nature like a colonizer cavalry phrase – like hold down the Fort against the Indians.

James: No you're right, you're right. We should decolonize the podcast more (laughter).

Mark: Just teasing. 

James: Alright so - it's me and Mark and we're going to be talking about what the fuck ever I guess (laughter). So this is Mark Tilsen. He is brothers with Nick Tilsen – who, I don't know if you folks know, but Nick Tilsen was one of the folks who was up there at the Keystone rally. That's pretty fucking neat. And we've got Mark here, he's also a pretty prominent activist here in indigenous circles and is fucking cool.

Mark: I too was at Keystone that day, but I thought we'd be fighting KXL. So I was saving my arrest for a future different day and battle that ended up being delayed I guess.

James: Yeah, I guess so with the whole thing going. I guess we'll see where that hits, right.

Mark: Right. My understanding is they’re currently building the man camps and the pre-construction, and they’re really trying to buy people off on Pine Ridge and Cheyenne river. They had a sit down with seven, like a backdoor meeting with seven of the councilmen on Cheyenne river to donate $1.8 million to the tribe in COVID relief. Build a man camp, basically a semi-permanent town that would be tribal property after the pipeline went through and a weird pyramid scheme where they were trying to convince the tribe to take out loans to buy into the pipeline project itself that would generate them X amount of revenue.

James: Yeah. So essentially the same type of bullshit that these oil companies and energy companies or whatever, just tend to go along with. It’s their same plotting essentially.

Mark: Yeah, you know, There's pipeline companies, there's pipeline companies, and then there's pipeline companies. I mean the Dakota access pipeline, which was owned by Energy Transfer Partners - now Energy Transfer Equity. They're much more gangster. They don't, they don't really do bribes. They just steal shit. They will build a pipeline across your land and not give you any compensation for it. And sometimes they'll fight more in court to fight the payment out than it actually costs just to pay off.

James: Yeah. That's very fucky.

Mark: Like at standing rock, they dabbled - Energy Transfer Partners, Kelsey Warren's outfit - was given the exact GPS locations of sacred sites for burial cairns and graves, ancient graves. And instead of respecting these areas, they moved their construction equipment directly over the graves and destroyed them. And they were fined $50,000 for it.

James: Yeah.

Mark: And for like for an $8 billion project, $50,000 is fucking nothing.

James: Yeah, absolutely. It just kinda goes to show the fuck nature that we operate under capitalism, honestly, and it's just… you wouldn't see the type of same shit happening with white people's fucking bullshit, goddamn churches or whatever.

Mark: Yeah. And, yeah. Well, yes and no. I mean like, you know, poor folks get fucked over in capitalism all the time regardless of race as well. And yeah, I don't know, sometimes I say “oh, this is such a racist system” and then I see other white folks that are entirely disenfranchised by the oil companies as well. And so it's not like capitalism inherently cares about us, but racism is just one of its tools.

James: Right, yeah, absolutely. And it’s very interesting to see the evolution of capitalism kind of come from “we don't care about black or Brown people” to “now we just don't really care about much of anyone.”

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember when I was in college, I met this one guy named Tim Wise and he was a visiting educator talking about race and he kind of looks a lot like late 1990s Mark Hamill from Star Wars.

James: Oh, wow.

Mark: Yeah. So he's got this like elder Luke Skywalker vibe. And one of the things that he pointed out is like the entire racial construct around labor in America was created intentionally to break class solidarity. It was a way so that Back workers and white workers wouldn't rise up and go after wealthy landowners, as long as there was some type of way for key people fighting amongst each other.

James: Right.

Mark: And yeah. Anyways, I dunno, we need another Fred Hampton. We needed it. I think if everybody read more Fred Hampton, we could've avoided a lot of shit.

James: Oh yeah, absolutely. Just straight up like “are we fucking slaves for goddamn revolt” like, the fuck is this shit. It’s very interesting to see this all kind of fucking taking place here. And it's definitely going to be happening a lot more in the future here with the way that like, I don't know. I get the feeling that Trump is definitely going to be reelected here, or at least he's not going to accept the results if Joe Biden somehow wins. And then it's going to turn into a full on dictatorship and he’s just gonna push these fucking pipelines through no matter what.

Mark: Yeah. And I mean, the thing is… the difference… the key… I can't articulate the differences between Biden and Trump very well. I know that Biden is more aesthetically pleasing to a lot more people. The Right is trying very hard to be like “he's Antifa, he's this radical anarchist” and it's like guys - he's basically a Republican.

James: Yeah he’s you (laughter).

Mark: He's basically like a 1992 Republican, like hard - tough on crime. He’s like kind of one of the incarnate - he's been on the Senate intelligence committee for so fucking long, he's basically a wing of the military industrial complex. You know what I mean? And I actually think he was chosen as a running mate because the quote unquote antiwar Barack Obama needed to be brought to heel by the corporate masters. And they wanted a handler that was right there with him. And I think there was a mistaken belief that the pro-peace candidate, Barack Obama, was gonna be radical in some way. What did he do – Obama I think did more drone strikes than Trump or Bush combined.

James: He also did a lot of, what the fuck? Oh my God. I'm fucking blanking on this word right now… deportations. He did a lot of fucking deportations as well.

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. And created a system - the ground game and the system that we currently have.But Obama was interesting because there's a lot of things that he did that, like created the DACA program – Also fought hard for the affordable care act. Obamacare gave way more people health insurance, but it was never a healthcare reform. It was health insurance reform. And we're not even being promised anything more from Biden, other than a return to Obamacare - a funded version of Obamacare. So I don't know, man. It's pretty wild times.

James: Yeah. I'm certainly both excited and very terrified to see what's going to come November. I've been saying this since kicking off this year with the fucking protests, there's probably going to be a civil war coming. I definitely see it in the fucking writing on the wall. It's coming and we got to get ready for it.

Mark: Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes I wonder about that. I think we're going to see it in certain areas and I think that there's how do I say this… I've been a direct action trainer for four years and one of my big areas is like de-escalation and there's very few people that are actually out there who are bad to the bone motherfuckers committed to killing… committed to this outlaw way of life.

And it's only under the auspices that Trump is trying to fuel this on. If you take away Trump, then all of the air goes out of the balloon when it comes to that particular part. We were seeing armed citizens choosing to fight each other in the streets, which is a very specific thing. And I think we're going to have to deal with it the way we kind of deal with mass shootings. it's just going to be part of American life.

James: Hmm. Interesting take.

Mark: Yeah, cause I don't actually think we're going to see you, for instance, on Pine Ridge, I think you’re going to see a handful of Trumpers who are going to get really offended that they can't march on the reservation whenever they want. And some of them might try to fuck with the border guards and there might be a shoot out there. I consider that to be a very viable thing, but are we going to see an invading force of Wasi'chus coming by the hundreds and thousands to wipe out your Ogala nation? I don't think so. I really don't think so. No state so far has unleashed its police force or national guard targeting white supremacy or insurrectionists - excuse me, white nationalist insurrectionists. And I think those are all very slippery factors and unknown variables. A week ago I was saying the exact same thing, and I'm not sure what changed other than, I guess the fear. Like the kid in Kenosha - he came up there cause he thought he was doing good. He was like, “I'm a sheep dog. I'm a protector. I'm a medic. I'm gonna take my Smith and Weston MMP sport two rifle and I'm going to try to help the piece.” And I think if you look back at that 17 year old kid and say, you're going to kill two people and injure a third and you're going to be charged with murder. I think knowing that… they try to hold them up as a hero. The first thing he did was he called his friend and said, I killed the guy. And there was fear in his voice and he was no longer this idealistic noble sheep dog. He was just a scared kid running away from the consequences of his actions.

And so I think there's some scary motherfuckers out there. I think there's people who have built their entire worldview and identity about this coming conflict. And you see it in the various militia groups, neo-Nazis. Not really the proud boys. The proud boys are not generally speaking, not people who are advocating for civil war. Their whole fraternity is about street fights. That's their mode, that's how they want to operate. And it was weird that Biden said to Trump - the proud boys as the example. He could have said, neo-Nazis. Talk to the neo-Nazis. Literally condemn Nazis And some of the proud boys are not white. And the reality of that situation - who gives a fuck if a proud boy is a neo-Nazi or not. But in the alt-right lexicon, that huge spectrum… the self-defined specificity is really important to the identity groups themselves..

I know we just consider them fascist. So we consider them… they're not a united front. They're straight up not a united front. And there's so many Americans who once they see what they are – and there’s plenty of Trumpers who hate them too, who hate both the alt- right and neo-Nazis - and it's only this illusion, only under this, almost like a spell, this glamor of Trump, that they are all associated. Cause you have, on their side, all the way from evangelicals, accelerationists, people who believe in starting WW3 and the recreation of the temple of Israel and bringing in the end times. That is part of their spiritual, political, religious belief core.

And then you have different Nazi groups that are almost atheistic or secular in nature. And then you have the vast miasma of Americana, which is default Christianity - generally evangelical but not necessarily. Who used to be conservative. And now they're in this alternative universe of information. It looks like the only thing is this glamor of Trump that's keeping this together, and all of these business interests that are controlling and feeding this beast.

James: That's a very interesting take. The way that I see things is that it's definitely not going to be like some huge ass scale civil war type shit because not everyone's going to want to fight. But I definitely do see some shit going down where it's just going to be straight up kind of like Syria or the Ukraine where there's scattered, sporadic fights between different factions. And it's going to continue like that for years until finally shit starts coming down. But I don't know, man. It's wild and I guess we'll just have to wait to see until November to see what shit starts popping off or not. That's all fucking wild.

And recently there's all those fucking protests happening overseas too, in Palestine and Lebanon. Literally the day after me and the other cohosts recorded the last episode - literally the day after we fucking recorded - fucking antigovernment protests started happening over there. And I was so sad. I missed it because it's fucking wild dude. Shit's popping off everywhere.

Mark: Right. And we're so focused on the previous 10 months that we're kind of almost forgetting the past 20 months. There was revolutionary insurrection from Hong Kong, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina - Canada. Canada was fighting a pipeline and the indigenous people of the nation shut down 75% of the railway system, literally from (in a singsong voice) – sea to shining sea.

James: That was the greatest thing that ever fucking popped up on my goddamn Twitter timeline.

Mark: Yeah, everything is so hyper NOW because everyone wakes up every day - damage report! And we're just flooded, continuously bombarded with the information that we're not quite seeing the connection that Indigenous people are standing up all across all across Canada and there's fights all across America now.

And I've been a part of a couple of those campaigns. And I think our job as Indigenous people – without being overly arrogant – as Lakota people. Our job is to lead and to lead well. If you look at the history of Indigenous resistance in America from the Indian Wars through the red power movement - Lakota people have been at the center of resistance.

And that's a role coming up all the way through standing rock, even now. So our role in the community of nations is to be the ones who say charge. Is to be the ones who are willing to lead that fight. I'm not saying all of us are warriors. I even debate with that identity myself almost on the daily - am I a warrior or am I not? How I live my life - is this how a warrior should conduct themselves? I have that extensive debate, but looking forward in this larger context of this moment – this history -  we have a chance to get a lot our sense of self and to regain our collective destiny that is situated inside the history of resistance.

And we don't actually even need all hands on deck. I'm cool with everyone just going to the Lakota language immersion schools, fluent by four program that they're having down there at the Rez. And everyone plugging away doing all of our Lakota-ness. We do need a handful of… well there’s this whole theory that there’s these people - both extinction rebellion and this group called the oath keepers-  have this thing called the 3%. The idea is that during the American revolution, only 3% of Americans were actively participating in the revolution. But they had more than 50% of the support.

The only thing about it is, that sounds all good and all, but two years ago when you're noticing my different friends at different water protection camps and frontline camps... seeing the same faces over and over and over again I was like, “Hey guys, are we actually building a movement here? Why is it just us?” And it didn't feel like we had that 3%. Now it's really interesting because I remember when BLM was was popping off in Los Angeles, John Cusack got attacked by the police for riding his bike after curfew.

James: Right.

Mark: And I just couldn't imagine the PD having that conversation like “Hey man, you remember that guy we roughed up on the Trek, the mountain bike. Did that look like an older John Cusack? I really liked him in high fidelity.” Being attacked by the police is now a mainstream experience for millions of Americans that wasn't before this year. And there's millions of more Americans who now know what it's like to be in moments of resistance to police oppression. And you know it almost immediately began being co-opted.

James: I don't know, the liberals going in there driving a wedge between everyone being like, “Oh, this is the right way to protest. You do peaceful protest. You don't do this violent graffiti or this fucking bashing the cops with bricks or whatever” It's like fuck off, you do not get to tone police this shit. You do not get to tone police fucking marginalized folks who’ve been getting their ass beat by cops and getting their shit denied. Like fuck dude. I don't know, but anyways, that was a little bit of fucking anger at liberals right there as per usual (laughs).

Mark: Yeah and also it's coming from a place of lack of understanding. Like we were talking about Bloody Sunday down in Selma. That was a conflict that was already existing that was escalated to a national crisis and a historic moment. And you have these iconic images of children being attacked and beaten by police, and attacked by German shepherds - police attack dogs. And the quote unquote organizers of that action knew the type of brutality that was coming. And it's really fucking… it's wild. And also when you think about, how do I say this… do you remember Gandhi's March to the sea.

James: I don’t think so.

Mark: It was this really symbolic action. There were so many repressive laws against the Indian population under colonial British rule that they couldn't legally collect salt from seawater anymore. That was outlawed. And it outlawed for one: to maintain control and two: to open up a market for imported and British controlled salts. But mostly it was a fuck you.

And so Gandhi started this march with a handful of followers - you know, because of the population of India was hundreds of thousands of people following him - to march to the sea. And one of the things that really clicked in my head was that Gandhi was willing to fight and die for that belief. For his belief in his nation and his people free from colonial rule. But one of the things that people don't realize when they’re looking at Gandhi is - he was kind of okay with the hundreds of thousands of people following him also making that sacrifice. And so we say “be like MLK, be like Gandhi.” Gandhi could have easily got 300,000 people killed, very easily. MLK brought the crisis where hundreds, maybe thousands of people had violence done unto them. And so it’s almost coming from a place of ignorance about what what is actually conflict, when you have power fighting power.

Like we talk about the rallying cry of justice. Which is kind of abstract and not really real. And this is one of the reasons why I believe in landback - has an action, has a rallying cry, has a mean, has a philosophy, has a core understanding and belief. There’s this documentary movie called “What Indians Want.” And it’s extrapolated off the writings of First Nations philosopher named Thomas King. And he said it's the wrong question entirely. Natives want land, they want to be free. The real question is what do white people want?

And at the end of the day, beginning and end of the day, it's land. That's what they want from Native people is land. Continuous, uninterrupted, unchallenged use of our land.

And how do I say this… this is where the conversation around reparations get so messy. Because we're no longer talking about ideals. We're actually talking about creating material change in people's lives. And so we're no longer talking about equality, diversity, peace. People for over two to three generations have articulated that peace, a peace without - again, this language is incorrect - but peace without justice is just a violence by a different name. It's just reinforcing the status quo.

And I was visiting with this MC on Franklin Avenue back in – I think it must still have been the winter. And one of the things that he's mentioned is, whenever we talk about Indigenous rights, so often white people think we're talking about our feelings – and not our actual lives.

James: Right.

Mark: And currently we're bumping heads with this racist ass mayor in Rapid City, South Dakota, where he basically said that all of the homeless population -  they're Indians, they're drunks. And they’re not welcome here and they need to go back to the reservations and nor will we, nor will the city, help them survive. Nor will they allow or encourage anyone to help them survive. And he was kind of doing this real weird thing. Like I think a lot of city leaders and state leaders are experimenting in a Trump philosophy of governing. Which is to rule by press conference or rule by decree instead of policy.

He basically said the feeding in the public parks needs to stop. And are you creating an executive order or do you expect us just to obey you because that's what you've said. And you’re acting as if you rule us and instead are a chosen, elected citizen.

And so much of it - our response is how offensive what he said was - instead of saying we're actually dealing with different things… there are pickup trucks that tried to run over homeless people -  we want to stop that. Homeless folks should have access to sanitation, water, food, and hopefully a shot at fucking equitable housing. There’s this weird, assumption –whenever we're dealing with a modern Republican it’s always this fruitless discussion that I get stuck in. It's like are you willfully ignorant? Or are you lying? Like he said the homeless populations left an existing support structure on the reservation to pursue free food and easy access to alcohol. And I was like…

James: Mmm, don’t know about that one chief (laughs).  

Mark: Right. Cause it’s like hey man, there's not really an existing support structure on the reservation. if you want to talk about free food, we got hamads, come out once a month. We also got EBT like everyone else. And there's a housing shortage of about 5,000 units on Pine Ridge alone. And I don't think any of the reservations in South Dakota have their housing needs met.

One Pine Ridge, there's very few truly homeless people because everyone's willing to pack everyone in so that people don't freeze to death. The idea that you'll let one of your relatives freeze or starve in the street is counterintuitive to who we are as people.

(pause)

I'm just so fucking pissed off. One: there's a housing shortage on the reservations. Two:  there's not an existing support structure for these people. And three: have you ever been to Pine Ridge? We have really easy access to alcohol, even though it's illegal. We have a legally dry reservation. We don't have an actual dry reservation. And in every community you can get your beer and your vodka and get your sips. It's totally a fucked up thing. And so his core argument - is he lying or is he just ignorant or is he willfully ignorant.  

James: Right.

Mark: But I don't want to get stuck in this - what you said was offensive and really racist conversation. Because I feel like that for us as Lakota people, as native folks - that's the baseline. We know this about this governor and it's kind of assumed of anybody in power unless explicitly challenged otherwise. Like the governor has probably never said anything racist, has probably not said a disparaging word. Has actually - by all accounts - has wanted to elevate the relationship with the tribal governments. And at the same time wants to undercut them continuously. And so it’s like, they've kind of already adopted to that analysis that you think we're talking about our emotions, but we're talking about our lives.

I don't feel as if we're telling the mayor you need to solve the homeless problem. It's more like, you need to get out of the way of solving the homeless problem. Lakota people have been living along Rapid Creek since there's been Lakota people or a Rapid Creek.

James: Right. Exactly.

Mark: To say that Lakota people are not welcome here… and we can say like these folks - what's the Trumpism that he loves - (exaggeratedly) “they're not sending their best people.”

James: (chuckles)  

Mark: And in the case of the folks who live on the streets, it's not true. Some of these folks were our leaders, were our activists a generation ago. Were part of our sun dance circles. Were part of our leadership and nonprofits. Some of them were professional people. And because someone is addicted due to ongoing genocide colonization and yes – some of their own choices that they've made that have led them here - that doesn’t remove their Lakota-ness or their right to the land or their right to exist or their right to be - because of addictions. We’re having a battle of worldviews and it's like - we don't think these people should be wiped out or removed from here. And the government's like, “but we do.” And it’s like ok, ok I'm gonna have to sorta disagree with you there.

James: Like maybe human lives aren't inherently bad. Maybe they're good. And we should try to maybe help people (chuckles).

Mark: Right. And the attitude of the state is like, well we do help people. We help sober people. And that is not the responsibility of the state or the city. I'm kind of thinking about it. I'm thinking this out loud and still processing a bunch of information that was put out in that press conference. Some of it was just inaccurate. (Imitating press conference speaker) “We do not have 300 homeless in Rapid City” and it’s like well… your last count was 365. And by your own admission, there's a hundred more than there was a year ago.

And after working with the West River Tenants Union - it's fucking easy as fuck to become homeless in this city.

James: Yeah.

Mark: And it is difficult. It is difficult to find housing. It's difficult to keep housing. I mean I'm lucky enough that I'm living with friends and they're financially stable enough that I get to live with them and that’s a gift. Like I’m not out there grinding.

Our proximity to homelessness is often just based by luck and chance. What is your family support structure? That's kind of the baseline. How much relative wealth does your family have? What is the stability that you had has a child? And then you can factor in stuff like education, addiction.

I saw a really brilliant post by – I think it was Natalie Means - and she was like we don't condemn alcoholics in this town. We actually need them for the economy to function the way it currently does. So it's not alcoholism that’s the problem. There’s alcoholics in council, there's alcoholics in the police department, there’s alcoholics in the chamber of commerce. It’s not addiction that we're talking about. That's not the actual enemy because we don't really seem to have a fucking problem with it. The attorney general got drunk - has been a drunk apparently for years - and accidentally killed someone with his motor vehicle. And yes, he might go to jail for his crimes. But no one is saying “you need to live on the streets and go back where you came from.”

James: Right.

Mark: That’s where my mind's at currently.

James: Yeah. There's a lot of interesting kind of points to talk about here, but the one thing that's always been on my mind is how tenacious shitty folks are to homeless folks. I remember talking to a coworker back whenever before this pandemic, and he was talking about how different cities are dealing with homeless folks. And at the end of the conversation, he just straight up said “I think we should just kill the homeless people. That should solve the issue.” I was just sitting here, like what in the absolute fuck dude. And yes, listener if you’re listening = he was white. It’s so fucked. The way that we're so fucking brainwashed to view homeless people as a blight on society rather than folks that need help and support and need us to help them.

Mark: Before the pandemic I did a lot of traveling past three, four years. In New York, homeless people are considered somewhere between subhuman and a nuisance. That’s the general attitude I see when people interact with people that are homeless.

In Oakland there's a different language around it. These folks are housing insecure. These folks are unhoused. These folks are camping. These folks have a home it’s just outside on the streets. So there's different verbiage, language and experience around it. I remember I was taking BART one time. I was coming back from San Francisco into Oakland and there was this dude. He looked homeless and he just got out of the hospital, still had the band on his wrist. And there was a couple that looked well to do. He says “May I have a seat? I just got out of the hospital.” And this was no problem. And they gave up their seats and stand so this guy could rest.

And right next to it, really close to where he was at there were these two young Black women who were drinking little bottles of sutter home. Looked like they were about to go to a party, they were all done up, looking really fly. And they just started visiting with this old guy, started checking on him. Like “You doing okay?” And he's like yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, they didn't want to be too condescending, they’re like “you know where you're going?” He’s like, “Oh yeah. I'm getting off over at the fruitvale station. I got a cousin who doesn't live too far there. I’m gonna go check in with him. And they’re like, “you need to use my phone?” And he’s like nah. And he says, “Well you should definitely give me a call later.” And they're like, “okay baby”. They just flirted with the old timer for a second, make him feel good. That one interaction of just being genuinely fucking human is kind of rare.

Like the situation in Rapids, we got relatives out here. And if you're Lakota I think that you know people who are living this life and it is dangerous and it is scary. It is hard and it is violent. And there just… needs to have some fucking humanity about it.

I think that one of the reasons why it's so fucking difficult - it almost strikes to the core of colonization and capitalism, right? You must endure the most amount of violence and inhumanity possible if you don't play the game. We will beat you. We will hurt you. We will strip you of any relative amount of dignity to the point where most of the bathrooms in the parks are shut down because we're not going to let you shit or wash your hands.

James: And that's a basic human fucking necessity.

Mark: And then have the audacity [to say] “These homeless people are shitting everywhere.” … you shit everywhere too, everyone shits. It’s just we have homes, we have a toilet and somehow the idea of getting folks what they need is encouraging them. That doesn't seem to bear out logically. By the mayor's own admission, they're spending between $7 million and $10 million a year dealing with the homeless issue.

If you're talking about a population of… let's get the math going here. Carry the one, divided by - let's lowball it - 300. That's $23,000 a year per person. How much easier would it be for these folks just to have fucking housing, shelter… for $23,000 apiece.

That's almost 2000 a month. We're spending 2000 a month to not house these people.

James: It just goes to show how brainwashed capitalism has made us because there's the sentiment that if you're not working hard enough, you don't really deserve it. Which is just a fucking wild ass concept to me. Because we have people who don't have access to food or housing or water or just the basic necessity of shitting or pissing somewhere. And you’re going to deny someone their basic humanity because you don't think that they deserve it? Or because you're not going to make money off of it?  It’s just fucking wild to me how fucking fucked capitalism is.

Mark: Yeah. Whenever you’re talking about folks coming from an anarchist understanding of the economy, it's interesting. Because then you peel back the layer of understanding subsidy. Then you peel back the layer of understanding forced scarcity. Talking to anarchists about… we have enough food in America to feed everyone. Even to do it for free, we just have to quit destroying the food that we could feed people. So pulling back the layers just a little bit - grocery stores throw away 40% of the produce that they have because they don't think it could sell. Or it can't sell in that current incarnation due to blemishes or spoilage or whatever. That could actually be given to people who will eat the food.

I know that sounds like a revolutionary fucking concept, but instead they destroy it. And most of the time it doesn't end up in compost, it doesn't end up as feed for animals. Most of the time it ends up, explicitly, in garbage dumps. In their mind, they feel they have to destroy the food, otherwise their profit doesn't exist. It’s literally 40% of their fresh products. We’ve already done the labor. We’ve already paid for the fertilizer, for the planting, for the harvest, all of this. All of this has been paid for. It’s not as if you're trying to extract even more profit off of the waste. You're just intentionally destroying the waste.

So that's one layer. The next layer is from the agricultural producers themselves. During the failure of dairy products - if the market can't sustain dairy - dairy farmers, when they see the profit loss coming, they'll just dump their product. We have an economic system that’s not “let's efficiently use our resources to feed the most amount of people.”

All of this education, this isn’t “new ideas” from me, I'm just regurgitating information here. But it is a really profound and interesting kind of look saying - we think there's an imagined scarcity when there isn't.

Mark: (yawns) Sorry about that. Didn't sleep terribly much last night.

James: You're good. I think everyone on the patrol’s just been lagging sleep these days,

Mark: Yeah. I made a commitment to myself - two days off a week and at least two days out of the week half time. And I think I'm going to do my best to stick by that. Cause this is a marathon, not a sprint. And if we don't find a way to make this as a sustainable way of our life, it won't be sustained.

James: Right.

Mark: We’re going to have a bunch of people on the weekends and - I actually got to get going here in a little bit – but we’re gonna have a bunch of people on the weekends, so I know it's great to come out and see everyone but that doesn't feel like where the most labor is needed. Have you guys talked about the patrol on here before?

James: No, actually this is the first podcast that I’d be talking about it because the last time I did a recording it was like before the patrol was even formed or we even had the first meeting.

Mark: Alright so, Mniluzahan Creek Patrol. There's a whole history of patrols stepping up going all the way through the sixties and seventies. And then you kind of have to realize like we were saying, Lakota people have always lived along Rapid Creek. So in pre-colonial times, patrolling at night was the duty of scouts and akicita. Warrior societies would watch over the camps while people slept and there would be scouts out further along from the camps looking for enemies – tolkas [KS1] [KS2] that were looking to raid.

And then you have to start understanding the history of colonization where we were forced on reservations, except in this area there was boarding schools. And people moved close to the boarding schools to be near their children.

Again, still at that time there were Lakota men who would look after the camps of women and children. Moving forward in time, I’m reminded of the AIM patrols. The American Indian Movement patrol has a way of policing the police. So that every time that an American Indian person was harassed by the police, there would be someone observing and watching that. It was a way of creating accountability to the police and just being safer. It seems like every generation has this moment where these patrols come together and are formed.

One of the members of the West River Tenants Union - Marina Alison - called for a meeting of minds to talk about the violence that's been going along the creek. The murders, suicides and the deaths. And from that meeting, the idea of getting a patrol formed was coming. And Danny Marival [KS3] asked for the second meeting to be created.

And from that second meeting, there's different leadership that stepped up. Then it was Muffy Musso, and her wife Felipa[KS4]  who are LGBTQ - really strong Lakota women who really lead point in saying, we're going to make this happen. And they started doing patrols and going live on Facebook and really kind of like highlighting, escalating that issue.

And since then we have a weekly meeting in the band shell[KS5]  and a nightly patrol. One of the things that’s kind of wild is the patrol has decided we're going to push ourselves absolutely as hard as we can, as long as we can. And we're going to do an eight hour night patrol. And we're going to have our routes and we’re gonna have folks we check on and we're going to build relationships with our relatives who are out here. The goal is multifaceted - you're handing out bottles of water, snack bags, and if you have it - a blanket.

(Mark sneezes)

May the good Lord bless and keep your soul as well.

James: (laughs)

Mark: What's funny is the mayor has credited the patrol for decreasing panhandling, which is weird. Cause we’re not handing out booze. So the thing that people wanted to buy, why people are panhandling, is for a little bit of water and some snacks.

The whole time I've been out here, I think I was hit up for money to buy booze once - literally once. All the rest of the time was like, “Hey man, you got any food, do you have any water, do you have a blanket?” Also I think people have a little pride in like, “hey man, I’m gonna go my drink on my own. That's my business, not your business.”

If people have their material needs met, they don't really feel the need to have to beg for it. Most of these people are very proud and I think it kind of hurts your spirit when you have to beg people who mostly don't care for resources.

The goal is to deescalate violence, to decrease arrest, help people get where they want to go. If folks want to go to detox send them to detox. If they need to get across town, get them across town. I think the people on the patrol – the ones who have kids – are a little bit more reluctant because of COVID. I think COVID changes everything.

Whenever I give folks a ride I'm like, “Hey, you got to put a mask on. I'm going to mask up, we're going to have the windows down and it's just going to be a handful of minutes before I get you where you're trying to go. And I appreciate that.” It's just trying to give a little bit of assistance and humanity to people.

The goal is to stop the killings and the larger goal is to escalate the crisis and draw attention to it so there can be solutions created.

Hearing from our relatives out there, it doesn't sound like they want a tent city. Some of them just want a place to be warm and safe. And they don't know how to find that.

I think if the governor – or excuse me - the mayor allowed an ordinance for tenting in public areas without the quote, unquote, explicit establishment camp, there are people who do camp and it's out of sight out of mind.

There’s other folks who don't who will fall asleep on a bench. Will fall asleep next to the bike path. It’s rough. It's rough to see. (sighs) So patrols have been up and running. People come, people go. There's some folks who stay and sustain it. And it’s a really hard ask for the community. We're asking you to do what are the most difficult things. We're asking you to stay awake all night attempting to help people who live lives that are continuously surrounded by violence.

There’s times where it doesn't feed your spirit because these people we helped out yesterday, they're facing the exact same thing today. And they might be facing the exact same thing tomorrow.

It's tough. It's really tough.

James: Yeah. If you folks are wondering, what can I do to help as a white person? Well, here's some options for you. I'm going to put some links in the show notes below for our Amazon wishlist and places you could donate. We have a PayPal, cash app and a fucking third app to send money to that I can't fucking remember off the top of my head -

Mark: Venmo.

James: There we go, That's the one. Yeah, we got all those. And if you're living in the Rapid City area you could probably hit me up on Twitter @oglalawarrioraw and then I'll make sure that your supplies will get to the right place.

If you're looking to volunteer to help duties patrols, you could also hit me up on my Twitter and I will get you in contact with the right people. We're looking for supplies. We're looking for volunteers. We're looking for whatever you can do to help provide support or help house relatives out here in Rapid City.

I think with all that out the way, I might put some other links in the show notes below for other shits you can also donate to and I think that'll be it for us so I’m just gonna go with the outro here. Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed listening to us, consider sharing this podcast. Be sure to also rate this episode and leave feedback if you'd like.

Our wonderful cover art – as always - was done by Eli. You can reach him on Twitter @paintedturtleco and there you can donate to his kofi or commission him for his art services. You can follow us on Twitter - reach me @ogalawarrioraw. Sarah's twitter is @feminineindigenous[KS6] , and Tai's twitter is @sp4zk1d[KS7] .

If you want to have updates on the podcast you can follow us @ of_underscoreresurgence. If you have any questions, suggestions, or want to provide direct feedback, you can reach us by email at voicesofresurgence@gmail.com. Mark, do you have any shits you wanna plug?

Mark: Oh, I got a catch phrase I like and it's very simple. It's “Be safe and if you can't be safe, be brave.”

James: All right. Thank you.

[theme music plays]

 [KS1]Unsure what word is said here (timestamp: 59:42)

 [KS2]

 [KS3]Name check

 [KS4]Name check

 [KS5]Name check

 [KS6]Name check

 [KS7]Name check